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Free Banking Is A Myth

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  • Free Banking Is A Myth

    Free banking is a myth: charges on current accounts reach £8bn a year

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    By James Daley, Personal Finance Editor
    Thursday, 17 July 2008



    Britain's biggest high street banks are making £8.3bn a year from customers' current accounts, exposing as a myth the notion of free banking, the Office of Fair Trading said yesterday.

    Publishing a review of the UK current accounts market, the OFT said that Britain's high street banks were failing their customers, and the market was in urgent need of reform.
    The report revealed that banks are currently charging their customers more than £2.5bn a year in charges for going over their overdraft limit. The OFT also criticised the banks for the complexity of their charges as well as their lack of transparency, claiming such opacity made it impossible for customers properly to compare current accounts.
    Of those who incurred bank charges in 2006, almost 40 per cent were affected six times during the year. Furthermore, the report said, fees had increased dramatically over the past few years, some by as much as 75 per cent.
    The OFT expressed particular concern that very few people move banks. Only one in three people in the UK has switched current account provider, one of the lowest rates in Europe.
    Although the OFT now plans to consult on possible remedies to improve the market, it warned that it would not be afraid to force a new regime on the industry if it could not come up with a voluntary solution. "This market is not serving consumers well," said John Fingleton, the chief executive of the OFT. "Customers lack the information they need to choose the best deal and this, in turn, weakens the banks' incentives to compete. There is much the banks could do to improve how the market works, and we hope this report will encourage them to take steps to do so."
    Consumer groups welcomed the report. "This report concretes the fact that there's no competition on charges," said Martin Lewis, of moneysavingexpert.com. "People are unaware of what they're paying, the fees bear little relation to the cost and society's poorest are subsidising the richest. It's time the Financial Services Authority's hold on reclaiming [bank charges] was lifted, and people were allowed to reclaim all the cash unlawfully taken from them.
    Although thousands of customers have demanded that the banks refund their charges – after a campaign launched by The Independent almost two years ago – the FSA has granted the banks a waiver on all claims until the current test case has completed its passage through the courts. That is unlikely to be for at least another year.
    "No other type of institution can take your money without asking; they need to bill you and if you disagree take you to court," added Mr Lewis. "Banks hold a unique position of trust; they can simply delete our money without question. The OFT is providing more evidence that this trust has been abused, and it's time it was sorted out."
    The British Bankers' Association said: "The OFT's market study contains many good points but some of its numbers are difficult to rationalise as they use assumptions and averages and, importantly, do not recognise the costs of providing the services.
    "[The OFT's] own survey found very high satisfaction rates [with the banks] with one in three people keeping a close watch for better deals.
    Also, a recent study for BBC television's Watchdog programme found customers stayed with their bank because they were happy with the service and products they received and felt they would do no better elsewhere. It was not because they were either unaware of how to switch or because they felt it was too complicated....
    "Banks are keen to ensure customers can continue to use their current accounts for day-to-day transactions without paying fees – as more than four out of five do now. In the UK customers do not pay a fee for their normal banking services and interest rates on savings accounts are high.
    "This model is recognised as being one of the best in the world as elsewhere it is common to have to pay for using cash machines, direct debits and more. We will actively work with the OFT and our customers to continue to offer the best deals and services that we can."

  • #2
    Re: Free Banking Is A Myth

    Nobody except a complete moron ever suggested that banking was free.

    The UK banking model is free banking whilst in credit which is something completely different.

    The supposed OFT quote:
    exposing as a myth the notion of free banking, the Office of Fair Trading said yesterday.
    isn't contained within the Executive Summary of the report, or the press release, or the main report.

    In fact, the report does refer to the "free-in-credit" as the prevailing banking model.

    Another bit of rubbish journalism, methinks.

    The report *does* refer to the "hidden" cost of lost interest on current account balances. But as I've previously posted, the actual impact of this is a trivial amount for most current account users.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Free Banking Is A Myth

      Originally posted by argentarius View Post
      Nobody except a complete moron ever suggested that banking was free.

      The UK banking model is free banking whilst in credit which is something completely different.
      ....
      No, you are wrong, the current banking system is fee free banking while in credit, the banks still earns money by the difference between inflation and the banks interest rate. It earns rather a lot of money that way. the time it takes to clear checks, during which time no interest is paid, is also a nice bonus.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Free Banking Is A Myth

        With respect, the interest differential is trivial.

        Average credit balance of £500 (say) x 6% LIBOR = £30 a year. Completely trivial. And that's for banks which don't pay any interest on credit balances, whilst some pay c.3% or even more (for introductory periods).

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Free Banking Is A Myth

          look after the pennys and the pounds will look after themselves
          #staysafestayhome

          Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

          Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Free Banking Is A Myth

            Originally posted by argentarius View Post
            With respect, the interest differential is trivial.

            Average credit balance of £500 (say) x 6% LIBOR = £30 a year. Completely trivial. And that's for banks which don't pay any interest on credit balances, whilst some pay c.3% or even more (for introductory periods).
            With respect, for an individual consumer the interest differential may be trivial, but for the banks it adds up to a heck of a income stream.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Free Banking Is A Myth

              With respect, obviously that's correct. But so what?

              A bank with 1 million current account customers might make £30 million out of the interest differential. £30 million is, actually, a pretty small amount to most banks and indeed to most of this country's equivalent sized businesses.

              Anyway, the point was that the "free" banking system is generally described, by both the banks and the OFT, as "free if in credit". You are absolutely right that this is more accurately described as "fee free if in credit", but the distinction is not particularly material to an individual customer unless they willfully leave a large balance in their current account - in which case, more fool them.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Free Banking Is A Myth

                It's important for most who believe the spin and the adverts though. We can generalise about those who pay no attention to the specifics because they still believe such an institution as a bank would never lie or deceive them.

                It's not fool them - it's the difference between generations. In the past the Bank was somebody you could trust. Thesedays, it's pretty much expected they are nothing more than legalised muggers.

                My Gran still doesn't understand why I am suing my bank. She remembers the days of speaking to a manager, somebody you would drink with (coffee it is my nan!) somebody who would advise you. Somebody you trusted (fiduciary anyone?)

                She hasn't been in branch for 20+ years and even though TSB hounded and sold her a loan that she could never repay (forcing her into bankruptcy despite the fact she's in her 80's - and yes I'm still ****ed I wasn't told earlier and the only time I've bollocked my father was over this) she still believes it's her fault, still doesn't believe she can reclaim the PPI (how can you sell an 80 yr old PPI?????????) , or the charges or anything.

                She's stuck in her ways and nothing I can say (and believe me I've tried) will make her change her mind or allow me to take on the matter for her.

                Banks should make a profit, they are a business. But Arg I agree with you often as devil's advocate but don't say 'more fool them' mate. The disctinction is very important when it concerns the deception made by the only industry in this country that reaps profits at our expense and gives nothing back and then when they **** up, we pay them when they bitch at the Government to get them back on track.

                Northern Wreck - the Gov should cover savers only. Take control of mortgages and let people repay them at agreed rates.

                But keep the place running no - subsidise shareholders no. Allow bonuses to be paid to directors no. Allow good ol Clive to walk away with £612,000 from the FSA **** NO!

                More fool us maybe, this is our bloody Government - maybe Gordon Brown is the next boss of the FSA eh! And then God HELP US!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Free Banking Is A Myth

                  Originally posted by argentarius View Post
                  With respect, obviously that's correct. But so what?
                  with respect that's the whole point of the report of the OFT report! people have no way of knowing the actual costs of running an account, and therefore the market is not efficient. That is one charge, and one income stream, it is not the only hidden income stream. The difference between fee free if in credit, and free if in credit, is the difference between the truth and a lie.

                  The head of the British Bankers Association uses fee free if in credit, and they are well advised to.

                  Originally posted by argentarius View Post
                  A bank with 1 million current account customers might make £30 million out of the interest differential. £30 million is, actually, a pretty small amount to most banks and indeed to most of this country's equivalent sized businesses.
                  assume £30 million goes onto the balance sheet. it is all profit. With the £30 million, the bank can now loan out an average of 22.5 times this (£675 million) on the basis of this new reserve. It will repeatedly lend out the profit. Almost all the money banks loan out today is based on small profits and small charges like these. People may think it is trivial, but it is not.

                  Originally posted by argentarius View Post
                  Anyway, the point was that the "free" banking system is generally described, by both the banks and the OFT, as "free if in credit". You are absolutely right that this is more accurately described as "fee free if in credit", but the distinction is not particularly material to an individual customer unless they willfully leave a large balance in their current account - in which case, more fool them.
                  It is material to the conversation, since the OFT report found that people are not aware of the actual costs of running a bank account, and consequently there is little competition in the market on cost.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Free Banking Is A Myth

                    HELLOOOOO!

                    This is how banks have made money since Jesus kicked the "money lenders" out of the temple..And probably before that!

                    Banks would not exist if they couldn’t make a turn on interest rates ie: loan rate vs. deposit rate.....that’s their game. Why would any body expect “free banking”? Isn’t that a little naive? What about “free stock broking” or “free bookmakers” what’s the point in owning a business which does that?

                    However, when some geek in the back office brought to the attention of the board of directors that by tweaking the fees and application thereof (Mr de-mutualised building society) they could increase income in to the stratosphere (+ £8Billion in one year.... & remember they re loaning this out 22X) the greed factor kicked in and they forgot about the impact it would have on their clients...Bank managers, remember them ? (now recognizable as acne infested dorks with a lending discretion up to £150 before having to “refer”) will be the first to tell you "There’s no such thing as a free lunch"!

                    So they stretched the law a bit and dressed it up as a subsidy to the urban myth of free banking as Angela Knight would have us all believe. Unsurprisingly nobody seems to have any faith in their banks any more (sorry chaps that’s the price you pay for peeing on your clients’ legs). Now Banks are struggling to get away with rights issues (oh dear)..... Let them eat cake!

                    The charges coming in to the banking industry every day will more than pay the banks total legal bill for the whole test case so why wouldn’t the Banks want to "ensure Justice at the highest level"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Free Banking Is A Myth

                      Whilst I can see that some would argue that the opportunity cost of lost interest on current accounts is part of their cost to the customer, I stick to my assertion that the amount is immaterial to everyone - because materiality depends how much money you have in the first place.

                      If someone has a huge average current account balance, the 6% or whatever they are not getting on it isn't that material to them, in the same way that the £30 a year isn't that material to the person with an average £500 balance.

                      To say that customers are not aware of this particular element of the cost of running their bank account is to accuse them of being stupid. The one part of a current account that most people do actually understand is the rate they are being paid on the balance, not least because in the case of many of the high street banks it's either 0% or 0.1%.

                      Now, if people don't have a clue what their average credit balance is, or can't work out that losing 6% on an average of £500 costs them £30 a year, before tax, that's down to their own ignorance and not the banks' lack of clarity. If the OFT see that as a problem, then IMHO they are wrong.


                      Anyway, getting back to the point, which was that the original article repeated the myth of "free banking". I agree that everyone should call it "fee free banking if in credit".

                      Comment

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