Debt Elimination Scams

[Amethyst]

Yesterday a gentleman spammed the MSE forum plugging his Debt Elimination service. His website made unsubstantiated claims and he was not regulated by the FCA. He was reported to Trading Standards, the FCA and the ASA and his website has now gone.

So what were the claims made, were they the same as the Rankines old claims?, or was it Freeman on the Land type claims ?

The claims he made were regarding trademarking and copywriting an individuals name and the result would be that your debt would be wiped off the face of the earth within 40 days.

We don't know if there were any 'victims' or how much he was charging for his 'service'.

I've attached the primary claims from the website and blanked out the ''company'' name as although I know FMOTL stuff can end up a little contentious I'd like more information on how these processes are purported to work so we can try and get any further ''companies'' closed down ?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

Yesterday a gentleman spammed the MSE forum plugging his Debt Elimination service. His website made unsubstantiated claims and he was not regulated by the FCA. He was reported to Trading Standards, the FCA and the ASA and his website has now gone.

So what were the claims made, were they the same as the Rankines old claims?, or was it Freeman on the Land type claims ?

From what I saw yesterday, these were more FMOTL type claims. As an ex-user of the infamous Credit Card Killer (Rankine) site, I distinctly remember they were asking you to 'sell your benefit' which meant they'd allegedly buy the debt from you so it would be THEM and not you who would owe the money to the creditor, they'd then take the paperwork to court to be ruled unenforceable. There was never any mention of copyrighting your name on there. The Rankine approach appeared to be all based on current statute law, which is quite the opposite of FMOTL.

When they were banned from using the courts for the purpose of having agreements ruled unenforceable, they moved on to setting aside SDs! :lol: Their business appeared to be legitimate in the early days (they even appeared on Panorama) but when the courts all but closed the loophole that allowed many similar companies to profit by having agreements declared unenforceable after the Carey case, they just carried on getting cash from punters, changing their advertised approach from getting your debts wiped to buying your debts. :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

The claims he made were regarding trademarking and copywriting an individuals name and the result would be that your debt would be wiped off the face of the earth within 40 days.

We don't know if there were any 'victims' or how much he was charging for his 'service'.

I've attached the primary claims from the website and blanked out the ''company'' name as although I know FMOTL stuff can end up a little contentious I'd like more information on how these processes are purported to work so we can try and get any further ''companies'' closed down ?

Most true FMOTL sites out there are not profit making, so they can't be classed as scams.

The Rankine site clearly showed an up-front fee of £400 per debt + 10% of the outstanding balance on your credit card. :wof: They were willing to offer discounts for further credit cards 'sold' to them.

I couldn't see anything on the site above regarding fees or charges, maybe that only came up once you approached them. :noidea:

[Celestine]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

Yes, Ive seen FMOTL tactics using copyright of a debtors name to respond to debt letters with a 'Bill' for use of the name of over £1million.

As someone who speaks to the opposition regularly, I can say without any doubt that these letters amuse them, are used as paper aeroplanes, and for other self amusement in dull office purposes......

[Wombats]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

I've attached the primary claims from the website and blanked out the ''company'' name as although I know FMOTL stuff can end up a little contentious I'd like more information on how these processes are purported to work so we can try and get any further ''companies'' closed down ?

THIS POST COMES WITH A VERY STRONG DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME WARNING!!!!!

The FMOTL sites have three ways of supposedly avoiding debts. One is simply Addressee Unknown stickers. As the name on the envelope will have Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms etc. the FMOTL movement claim this refers to your 'person' or corporate fiction/strawman which is not us, the living, breathing you, so they claim it is just and right to say addressee unknown return to sender.

The next two are attached below as pdf's. The first involves the Copyright mentioned above, the second a chain of letters. These are copies sent to me from a FMOTL site, so you may or may not wish to leave them attached. I don't wish to cause any inter-site issues.

[Amethyst]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

Surely that's a trademark infringement of Walt Disneys?

[Amethyst]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

I'd love to see one of those go through the courts.

[Wombats]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

Trust me - they do! Strangely from time to time financial institutions do not treat these as legal documents - hard to believe really isn't it! :tinysmile_aha_t:

[wales01man]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

People in Debt do strange things one reason is Ignorance of what can be done its hard to eliminate a Debt can probably be done in a few cases .
Until Everyone finds help from sites like LB they will be clutching at straws believing in Scams like this, There is more help and advice available nowadays no need to live in fear of debt we can choose one 0f 3 ways to handle debt basically Ignore. Fight or pay no need to pay some scammer to help just search and ask for help

[Amethyst]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

Trust me - they do! Strangely from time to time financial institutions do not treat these as legal documents - hard to believe really isn't it! :tinysmile_aha_t:

Do people really go to court using those arguments? Any judgments or threads following up court hearings ?

[Crazy council]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

Do people really go to court using those arguments? Any judgments or threads following up court hearings ?

Yes they do, but only at local courts, i have seen vids of a few, but its the most bonkers interpitation of the law possible. Its al to do with admiralty law...

Funny to watch but people like these who really waste court time and can, sometime be quite offencive in court, give normal LIPs, especialy around council tax, a harder time in court.

I often wandered what the FMOTL ( Nutt Jobs ), would do if needed the ambulance, or police, schools for there kids. As you can see, am far from a fan..... although, it is entertaining listening to there arguments

[Wombats]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

Do people really go to court using those arguments? Any judgments or threads following up court hearings ?

An couple of interesting articles first:

http://libertarianalliance.wordpress...rister-writes/

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/...queen_1_745681

You'll see once they really get to court the Freemen rely on the same law as we do:

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/foru...p?f=54&t=69580

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/foru...p?f=54&t=66207

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/foru...p?f=54&t=67588

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/foru...p?f=54&t=63887

Shame this didn't go ahead: http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/foru...p?f=54&t=68024

This sums the whole thing up well:

http://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2011/11...rous-nonsense/

The danger is there are plausible people like Brian Gerrish who preach content which is similarly dangerous (best known for the UK Column but loads will come up if you Google the name - a very believable man, based in Plymouth and who holds some interesting views.

[Amethyst]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

Gawd on one of those threads they are still bringing up SSA and benefits grrrr. Funny how they are happy to try use the real law when it suits them and spend the rest of the time arguing it doesn't apply to them.

[Nibbler]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

Now back making their bogus claims.

And charging for the pleasure.

[Amethyst]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

Have you rereported and are they on the same host?

I got an email from the ASA saying 'technical' issues would be passed on to the FCA. I queried the claim of money written off by using their methods etc but haven't heard back from them.

[Amethyst]

Re: Debt Elimination Scams

Well the Intellectual Property Office state ''The cost of a trade mark application starts at £170 with an additional £50 payable per additional class.'' and trademarks need to be distinctive and unique so wonder what happens when John Smith signs up for his service