Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

[charitynjw]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

The way the government operates has hardly changed since Cromwells time.

That's a very cavalier attitude, Teaboy

[CleverClogs]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Turn back to what time, time of the Workhouse

The present kakistocracy is too cheap to build workhouses.

[Inca]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Was it not?

You seemed to agree with it, nevertheless.

Au contraire Mr Clogs,,,,,,,,Apart from one prolific breeder in my family (who now has to find work as her youngest is at school) ,the whole bunch of my family of working age do just that..they work

[CleverClogs]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Au contraire Mr Clogs,,,,,,,,Apart from one prolific breeder in my family (who now has to find work as her youngest is at school) ,the whole bunch of my family of working age do just that..they work

I am so pleased that you have learned how to quote other posts accurately. :tung:

[bluebottle]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Contrary to a popular belief, UK benefit system is not that generous, especially compared to Nordic countries where taxes are much higher too. Save, it may be too generous for those who have a large family. Anyone having half a dozen plus kids should not be expecting the State to support them forever.

Benefit system exists as there needs to be a safety net. As discussed before, we all pay national insurance when we work. Part of that funds unemployment etc benefits when needed, and part of the NI contributions goes towards the NHS.

I doubt many people would prefer to be 'on the Social' to work. In any society, you always get some who do, but they are a minority.

Forcing people to full time employment paying just the basic benefits is wrong. There's nothing wrong forcing unemployed to attend relevant courses, work placements etc but those should exist to help them out of the dole, not to punish 'scroungers' who are a very small minority. Yes, the workshy should be dealt with but the proposed schemes don't actually deal with the root of the problem.

At the moment there just aren't jobs for everyone. A fact. Encouraging long-term unemployed towards self-employment (as they do in many other Western countries) would be a good start. On paper, the system is just expected to do that, but in practice it does just the opposite.

The main root of the problem is inflexibility of the benefits system. People should be encouraged to take a temporary employment, however short, as it sometimes (used to be quite often before the downturn) leads into a long-term, even 'permanent' employment. Again, the system practically forbids this. Only the first £5 is disregarded, meaning that if you have a two day ad hoc temp booking paying about £120 you are easily worse off once your travel etc expenses are taken into account, not to mention the chaos it causes with a local jobcentre. The current system does not recognise that one week you could have a temp booking, another week you can't get any work. It practically prefers dealing with long-term unemployed 'customers', as the claimants are called.

Until these basic issues are addressed, the problem won't be going away. Universal credit is supposed to address some of these issues but only time will tell if it succeeds or not.

You've made some very interesting and relevant points. A lot of people in the Over 50 age group, who are finding it difficult to secure paid employment, are going self-employed and many are doing well. Universal Credit has recently been given a slating as it has been found it will actually cost more to administer than the current system.

[charitynjw]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

My understanding of Universal Credit is that it is to be a 'one-stop-shop' for benefit claimants, the money being paid directly to the claimant.

Under the existing arrangement, rent etc can be paid directly to the landlord where there may be a 'problem' (for instance, if the tenant has an addiction)
Under UC, it will be the claimant's responsibility to ensure the landlord gets paid.

What could possibly go wrong?

[wales01man]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

I totally agree with the idea that the electoral system and the way the country is governed needs to change>What I disagree with is the idea that it will change it wont now and never will while any of us around now are alive a revolution in any form will not happen .
The way we elect our so called representatives is by a tick on a paper placed in a ballot box the options there are vote for someone named or not only ticks against a name are counted,we have no tick box saying None of the above or a box to say this is not the system we want.

Truth is we are ruled by a small group who have been around a long time and have made damn sure they will stay thee

[bluebottle]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

My understanding of Universal Credit is that it is to be a 'one-stop-shop' for benefit claimants, the money being paid directly to the claimant.

Under the existing arrangement, rent etc can be paid directly to the landlord where there may be a 'problem' (for instance, if the tenant has an addiction)
Under UC, it will be the claimant's responsibility to ensure the landlord gets paid.

What could possibly go wrong?

All I know, Charity, is that UC was recently slammed and one of the reasons cited was that it will cost more to administer than the current system. A major problem with the current system is Decision Makers who are not that well-educated, find it difficult to correctly-interpret very complex regulations and allow their personal prejudices to colour their judgement, as well as try and pull the wool over the eyes of claimants and HMCTS, who administer the appeals tribunals.

One solution is to simplify the regulations and write them in plain English so that everyone can understand them. As a further safeguard, Decision Makers who allow personal prejudices to colour their judgement and/or try to pull the wool over claimants' eyes or that of HMCTS should face disciplinary action which should carry the sanction of Termination of Appointment (Civil Service equivalent of dismissal). At present, this does not happen.

[Amethyst]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

On the subject of benefits amounts.

We bring home around £477 a week (wages/child benefit/child tax credits). If we both weren't working we'd receive benefits of £431 a week, plus school dinners of £35 would be paid for. So if you are cynical you could say my OH works 40 hours a week for £10.

That is what is wrong with the current system.


On the issue of training.

When I voluntarily signed on as unemployed (I received no benefits for doing so I just felt the system had ditched me because my OH happens to be employed) I asked to attend a course on improving your CV as I felt that was why I might not be getting far in the application process. I wanted advice on what I should be leaving out, education/employment wise, what my personal statement should state for different jobs and so on.

Sadly the course was aimed at, ummm, 5 year olds, I was told I had to go through a Computer Skills test. This consisted of how to use a mouse, how to click the mouse button, how to type my name WITH a CAPITAL letter, and so on and so forth. One of the guys next to me was a computer technician who had been made redundant. It was to last 45 minutes but I wanted to shoot myself in the face after 15 so told the trainer I thought it was an utter waste of time and left. Sadly the others couldn't else they would have been sanctioned on their benefits.

I'd spent about 5 minutes with the 'expert' and he was utterly clueless. I gave up signing on then, so their employment figures will look that bit better :tung:

What in god's earth are 9-5 attendances meant to do to people other than damage their self esteem and increase the number of jobs applied for that are unsuitable and irrelevant to a persons skills just so they can tick the boxes. There's already well over 100 applicants for any job I've applied for.

I'd love a decent job (or an indecent one)

[Amethyst]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Work Placements

My neighbour had a two week work placement which she loved. It was in a charity shop so wasn't going to lead to a job but the experience was good. She had her benefits sanctioned because she was working in the placement the day she was meant to sign on. It took ages for her benefits to get sorted back out again and they really struggled.

I'd jump at a work placement, doing anything, but I'm not in the system because the system is pathetic and doesn't recognise me as an individual.

[bluebottle]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

I totally agree with the idea that the electoral system and the way the country is governed needs to change>What I disagree with is the idea that it will change it wont now and never will while any of us around now are alive a revolution in any form will not happen .
The way we elect our so called representatives is by a tick on a paper placed in a ballot box the options there are vote for someone named or not only ticks against a name are counted,we have no tick box saying None of the above or a box to say this is not the system we want.

Truth is we are ruled by a small group who have been around a long time and have made damn sure they will stay thee

It is vested interests who are maintaining the status quo. Those involved in the manipulation of government policy and laws are terrified of being exposed and what they are doing coming out into the glare of public scrutiny. Corruption and fraud are just the tip of a very sleazy and evil iceberg. The small cliche who are behind this know that people have found out what is really going on and are desperately trying to keep a lid on it. Unfortunately, the lid is off and what has been going on will soon come pouring out. They are finished and they know it.

[Sapphire]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Lets turn this on its head a bit, we have a small business and a while ago we advertised for Sales people through the job centre website, we had over 300 email applications with CV's attached, after sifting through them very carefully we asked for 10 people to come for an interview

5 didn't turn up, no call... nothing
3 turned up looking like they'd just stepped out of bed, two of whom stunk of booze, one was swaying all over the place and the third was as high as a kite
1 turned up and couldn't speak a word of English
The last one was an 18 year old lad, he was smart, clean, tidy and was absolutely lovely, unfortunately he didn't have a driving licence which was one of the requirements on the advert.

Honestly if you could see some of the things that were written on the job applications its no wonder that people don't get jobs, I wish I'd kept them now and could give you some examples, here's a couple that I remember that stood out

'I want to be a singer, but this will do till I win X Factor'
'You won't want me as every business I've worked for has closed down'
'I won't start before 10 am and want to finish at 3pm'
'I want to be a beautician so I thought this would be good experience'

Need I say more ?

[wales01man]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

LOL If that one wins X factor you can at least say" They asked me for a job once"

[Inca]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

YOU PROMISED YOU'D NEVER TELL SAPPHY.....XFACTOR WAS 'OUR SECRET'

[labman]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

amethyst (sorry - not been on the computer course so can't do capital letters) :tung: That pretty much backs up everything I have heard about them. It is exactly why 9-5 training would be wrong.

Who would deliver it? Well Sapphy - probably the same people that apply for teaching jobs or teaching assistants' jobs for which I interview fairly regularly. Even application forms at Headteacher level now can be absolutely appalling, full of spelling mistakes (in a world of spell checkers which I hate!), grammatical errors, etc... This from the people who are leading or doing the teaching. It's hardly a surprise that the products of the education system know nothing, and those applying for jobs in small businesses are terrible.

This is why I talked about trying to turn back time. Progress is a mixed blessing. Not everyone can be above average, which is what this government wants - it is a mathematical impossibility. I'm all for raising the bar, but lowering it - no thanks.