Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

[teaboy2]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

The thing is, would any other be any better? :beagle:

Yeah there is a better option mate. They should stop listening to the big companies that would love to cut their wage bill with free labour, and start listening to the SME's that actually great over 90% of the jobs in this country!

SME's need help in order to create the Job's so badly needed by many, they want to create such jobs and employ people. But banks won't lend, government schemes are out of reach of many, or in my opinion a waste of time and simply an attempt to make the government sound like their helping whilst really they have the Big Companies holding there hands and whispering in the ears all the time. It all very well helping Jobseekers start up their own business, via the enterprise allowance, scheme, but helping them with a business plan and cash flow forecast, and wait for it, teaching them about paying NI and other taxes (Yes very important to the government) and then giving them x amount of cash and sending them on their way, leaving them to do the rest themselves is wrong. Theres no on going support for them, and the money they are given for setting up is doesn't go far. but i guess so long as they know how to pay NI and taxes thats OK in the governments eyes!!

Way i see it, instead of spending billions cutting the welfare bill, send the money the SME's way and they'll cut the welfare bill for you by a much greater amount than any of these stupid job schemes will do.

[Inca]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

I know it's not quite what is being mentioned here, but there are people within my family who are aged 20 and never have any intention of working. They are living far more comfortably on benefits than we do, and we claim none. That cannot be right.................


That bit wasn't me Cloggles

[enaid]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

i have to say that if could more I would . As a full time carer I cant do a lot . But the carers allowance is set up so that going one pound over the limit can not only lose me the months money, but require me to repay the entire year's worth of benefit . Encouragement to work ? I don't think so .

If anyone disbelieves this then I have proof it happens I lost 18 months carers allowance and paid it back at their chosen rate of £5 per week taken from my ongoing CA, it took me 8.5 years to pay it back. I wasn't deliberately cheating the system I was allowed to earn £50 per week then and I had a little job in a bookies. I cared for my daughter as I still do and tried to keep a little job I enjoyed by helping out when I was asked, never again lol.
Then when I get to claim my pension (if ever cause they keep moving the goal posts) CA will stop as you can't get a pension and care for someone lol

[bluebottle]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Yeah there is a better option mate. They should stop listening to the big companies that would love to cut their wage bill with free labour, and start listening to the SME's that actually great over 90% of the jobs in this country!

SME's need help in order to create the Job's so badly needed by many, they want to create such jobs and employ people. But banks won't lend, government schemes are out of reach of many, or in my opinion a waste of time and simply an attempt to make the government sound like their helping whilst really they have the Big Companies holding there hands and whispering in the ears all the time. It all very well helping Jobseekers start up their own business, via the enterprise allowance, scheme, but helping them with a business plan and cash flow forecast, and wait for it, teaching them about paying NI and other taxes (Yes very important to the government) and then giving them x amount of cash and sending them on their way, leaving them to do the rest themselves is wrong. Theres no on going support for them, and the money they are given for setting up is doesn't go far. but i guess so long as they know how to pay NI and taxes thats OK in the governments eyes!!

Way i see it, instead of spending billions cutting the welfare bill, send the money the SME's way and they'll cut the welfare bill for you by a much greater amount than any of these stupid job schemes will do.

The politicians seem to conveniently forget that it is small businesses who employ the majority of those in work. However, it is major corporations who fund a certain political party and who call the tune. We have SERCO, G4S and A4e being investigated for fraud and how many other major corporations have been fleecing the taxpayer? It is time to allow small businesses to tender for government contracts and keep major corporations out of the tendering process and investigate just how much influence they have had over government policy and laws.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

The minimum wage is being increased from next Tuesday it is so little, how is that going to help people going to work and get a job, when they probably can get more for doing nout on the dole http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24340661

[CleverClogs]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

I know it's not quite what is being mentioned here, but there are people within my family who are aged 20 and never have any intention of working. They are living far more comfortably on benefits than we do, and we claim none. That cannot be right.................

That bit wasn't me Cloggles

Was it not?

You seemed to agree with it, nevertheless.

[Mr $quanda£ot]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Contrary to a popular belief, UK benefit system is not that generous, especially compared to Nordic countries where taxes are much higher too. Save, it may be too generous for those who have a large family. Anyone having half a dozen plus kids should not be expecting the State to support them forever.

Benefit system exists as there needs to be a safety net. As discussed before, we all pay national insurance when we work. Part of that funds unemployment etc benefits when needed, and part of the NI contributions goes towards the NHS.

I doubt many people would prefer to be 'on the Social' to work. In any society, you always get some who do, but they are a minority.

Forcing people to full time employment paying just the basic benefits is wrong. There's nothing wrong forcing unemployed to attend relevant courses, work placements etc but those should exist to help them out of the dole, not to punish 'scroungers' who are a very small minority. Yes, the workshy should be dealt with but the proposed schemes don't actually deal with the root of the problem.

At the moment there just aren't jobs for everyone. A fact. Encouraging long-term unemployed towards self-employment (as they do in many other Western countries) would be a good start. On paper, the system is just expected to do that, but in practice it does just the opposite.

The main root of the problem is inflexibility of the benefits system. People should be encouraged to take a temporary employment, however short, as it sometimes (used to be quite often before the downturn) leads into a long-term, even 'permanent' employment. Again, the system practically forbids this. Only the first £5 is disregarded, meaning that if you have a two day ad hoc temp booking paying about £120 you are easily worse off once your travel etc expenses are taken into account, not to mention the chaos it causes with a local jobcentre. The current system does not recognise that one week you could have a temp booking, another week you can't get any work. It practically prefers dealing with long-term unemployed 'customers', as the claimants are called.

Until these basic issues are addressed, the problem won't be going away. Universal credit is supposed to address some of these issues but only time will tell if it succeeds or not.

[enquirer]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

to take part in 9-5 classroom sessions at local job centres...

Ah ... more lucrative 'courses' to be run by private companies like A4e. Accompanied no doubt by the the usual complement of MP's acting as highly paid 'consultants'.

[labman]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

It would be interesting to hear the experiences of any here who have been on these enforced courses. The feedback I have had from quite a range of people is negative. Poor quality, apathetic tutors, dreadful time management, learn no significant new skills. Not a good recommendation for more 9-5 training unless it is done properly.

As I said elsewhere recently, it is impossible to turn back time, but in many ways, this is exactly what needs doing with the Welfare State.

[wales01man]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Turn back to what time, time of the Workhouse or transports to Aussie reforms are needed by how and who is capable of doing it in a way that is just and fair?

[labman]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Turn back to what time, time of the Workhouse or transports to Aussie reforms are needed by how and who is capable of doing it in a way that is just and fair?

I didn't realise the Welfare State existed then. The thing is, the solution does not, IMO, lie solely in reforming the welfare state. Reform is needed in other areas to in order to impact on the Welfare State - Education, Immigration, Europe, possibly the Electoral System and so on....... the list could be very long.

[wales01man]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Reform those to impact on the welfare state as you say but how The electoral system will never change the people may want it but those in power will not allow change,Immigration here is mostly because of the Europe we are part of ubtil we get a vote on Europe that stays. education is 2 tier in this country money gets you the best and a gead start in life the rest of us have to work at it, those clever enough face a future of debt to get the qualifications to succeed many who are capable will not get there.
Reform a good idea but who is gonna do it ?

[bluebottle]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Reform those to impact on the welfare state as you say but how The electoral system will never change the people may want it but those in power will not allow change,Immigration here is mostly because of the Europe we are part of ubtil we get a vote on Europe that stays. education is 2 tier in this country money gets you the best and a gead start in life the rest of us have to work at it, those clever enough face a future of debt to get the qualifications to succeed many who are capable will not get there.
Reform a good idea but who is gonna do it ?

The way in which Cabbage Patch Doll Cameron (look at his face and you'll see what I mean) and his pals on the government benches behave has not only gotten the electorate's backs up, but that of opposition MPs and, not surprisingly, the more moderate Tory MPs, also. Change will come, whether Cameron likes it or not. They are going to be in for one awful shock when change does comes. I am becoming increasingly more involved in local issues where I live and the mood on the ground clearly indicates that people want change and they want the politicians held to account and vested interests kept out of Westminster. The politicians are servants of the people, not their masters and they all-too-often forget this. They need reminding and to keep being reminded.

[labman]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

The politicians are servants of the people, not their masters and they all-too-often forget this. They need reminding and to keep being reminded.

I totally, 100% agree with this comment. However, it's easy to write, but extremely hard to do in practice. :beagle:

[teaboy2]

Re: Jobless 'To Be Forced To Work' For Benefits

Yep the biggest thing this country needs is a complete modernisation of government and parliament to reflect what modern voters want and are calling for. And more importantly, making it fairer for all and not passing the buck on to the poorest and most needy, when the rich and greedy ruin the economy. The way the government operates has hardly changed since Cromwells time.