Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

[teaboy2]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

I can remember YTS, now that was slave labour, but come on get real, we need to stop the ponces, and the illegal claiming of benefits.
The Blairrites and Brownites (for the laymen, the totally useless people who skinted the country, and said statements like "no more boom and bust"), wake up and smell the outgoings.
In order to be successful the books need to report a profit, and recently we have been running at a loss, when you borrow, you must pay back, and paying backs cost's more than you originally borrowed.
In order to get back to square 1, you need to create the same situation as square 1. Limited funds + debt = cut backs in your outgoings, and the stupid amounts going out in benefits (as well as the euro club) need to be reined in.
Everyone will suffer apart from those who know how to play the system

I agree, we need to rein in those that are wrongly claiming and should not be claiming, but forcing people to do forced labour and effectively promoting slavery (as thats basically what it is), is not the way to go about it as it does not help people get work, if anything it prevents them spending that time looking for work. The government should be working with businesses (employers) and finding more creative ways of getting people off the dole and into work, one way is like my own company's income plan where people can sign up to it as self employed and work from home earning a commission, bit like avon ladies but with a difference. They also need to cut the red tape too making it less costly to employ people and also get the banks to provide the financial support to business that need finance in order to take on extra employees. You need to create jobs for the jobless, thats the only way to solve the unemployment problem, hitting the jobless with forced labour is not going to create new job vancancies.

Cracking down on people falsely claiming is easiler then it sounds too. At the moment their is no cross agency cooperation that would actually help to weed out those wrongly claiming. The requirement of ID such as driving license or Passport, along with a utility bill and bank statement issued in the last 3 months should be standard requirement for all benefit claims, instead of the 20 minute phone call, follwed by a sign on at the local job centre where no ID is required. Well i was never asked for ID when i was unemployed prior to starting my company.

Its the system thats flawed that allows people to wrongly claim and its the system that needs fixing, but you do not need to force people to do unpaid work to fix the system as that is unlawful and in breach of peoples rights. At the moment all the governement is doing is targeting the vulnerable in order to make it look like the governement is making a serious effort, when really all they have done is taken the easy option of persecuting the unemployed, hell you only have to look at the stigma and atitude of the media and people towards the unemployed, yet they fail to release that the majority of the unemployed are hard working people that were made redundant or made a mistake and were sacked but still want to find work and get off benefits.

I have contacts within employment agencies and enterprise centres as well as with local jobcentres and they are all disallusioned as to what the government is trying to achived and have seen no benefit in their actions such as getting people back into work, sure its helped weed out some that have been wrongly claiming certain benefits, but the real goal here? Is it not getting people back into work, or just persecuting a whole group of people just to find the ones that should not be part of that group? It seems to me its the latter.

[shell]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

This whole issue needs a serious overhaul. At the moment the dole office is picking on soft targets to massage the the unemployment figures. Don't pick on someone who has just finished college or university and don't pick on someone who has just lost a job, these are the people that want to work. Instead go for those that have been long time unemployed, these are the people that need to be shown that working will improve your life. They also need to do some serious work with the children of long time unemployed that come in to sign on, show them some ambition. The cycle needs to be broken. Too many kids grow up on the dole and their only ambition in life is to get to an age when they are old enough to sign on.

[teaboy2]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

I agree, the government should not be targeting people that have only been unemployed for just 6 months that have been sacked from previous job or made redundant from previous job (a lot are fail to get news jobs cos of their age) and they should not be targetting school, college or university leavers just because they have been unemployed for 6 months. Hell sticking them in shops stacking shelves of on interim jobs working in factories is a pure waste of their talents. They should be going after those that have not be able to show that they have been actively searching for work and have the evidence to proof it and have been unemployed for a year at most.

They should also not be making any of them do unpaid labour, they should be paid minum wage by the likes of pound land during those job placements, otherwise their experience of going to work is coming home without any money, where they are better of on jobseekers where they get paid then they are working where they do not get paid anything. Sounds sad i know, but some youngsters do not have the education or intelligence to know that they actually would get paid a wage for going to work, and they simply just assume working means you don't get any money. Or that its boring, and trust me stacking shelves is as boring as being stood in a line in a factory repeating the same thing over and over and over again for 7-8hrs a day. I have done both those jobs in past. And you do not learn anything from them, in fact it puts you off working altogether, not to mention causes depression as it is a sad repeative and boring as muck job, they both are in fact.

I have one question for those that agree with the government - Would you send your grand ma or child to do unpaid forced labour 2 weeks to earn their child benefit, state pension, winters allowance, or housing benefit? No you wouldn't, if you say otherwise then your either lying or your a cruel cold blooded person.

[bluebottle]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

There are a number of issues associated with this case which could result in the government being on the receiving end of an adverse judgement in court.

Article 4 of the UN Universal Declaration on Human Rights prohibits slave labour, whilst Article 23 provides a right to work and to remuneration for work performed. The UK is a signatory to both the UN Universal Declaration on Human Rights 1946 and European Convention on Human Rights 1953.

English Law also requires any employer who employs someone to pay them for any work carried out. The only exemption is a registered charity.

With this in mind, not only may the British government receive an adverse judgement in court, Poundland could be at a very real risk of prosecution for non-payment of remuneration. It would also be interesting to find out if this invalidates Poundland's Employer's Liability Insurance. It is an offence to employ persons without valid Employer's Liability Insurance.

[teaboy2]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

I agree with blue bottle above, though charities obiviously are only exempt in terms of volunteer workers.

But anyway, i read in the paper this morning how pound land had bumper profits over the xmas period, i wonder how much profit was created by taken people to do force labour. Also they claim they are going to create a further 2,000 jobs this year, question is how many of those are allocated for those people sent by the government to do forced labout in pound land. Makes you sick knowing all those profits were from items of stock stacked on shelves by people made to do forced labour. I think we should start a boycott of pound land for their exploitation. One also wonders how many products they sell under a pound were produced in unethical working conditions in factories or from the result of child labour. Maybe we should investigate that as well and see if there is any issues of unethical working conditions or child labour involved in the production of pound lands products.

I would sure love to be able to buy all my stock for 10-20p in the pound like they do, but manufacturers production and wage costs mean i can not. The cheapest product i can get is for just under £2.00+ Vat. How they are able to buy their products for pennies in the pound simply doesn't add up, even if they are factory rejects, which reminds me. If they are factory rejects, and you smoke, don't buy any bloody lighter from there, as their rejects for a reason i.e. don't work for bloody long or cause you to burn your bloody nose cause of the flame suddenly shooting up in size lol.

[charitynjw]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

Yep!

A fair day's work for a fair day's pay.

Or Quid Pro Quo!

(Poundland, geddit ............I'll get my other coat........)

[teaboy2]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

But miss reilly was at the time working as a volunteer at the local museum in the hope of a job at the end of it, which is likely to have given to her too. So its not that shes happy not working, she is clearly quiet happy to work as a volunteer in the hope she gets a job. So its not like shes sat on her arse doing nothing. What the issue is, is that she has been forced to give up her place at the museum that could have result in the job she wanted, in order to satisfy certain politicians demands that she must do compulsory labour and stack shelves at pound land for free. Its counter productive. So its not as if she was not giving something back to her local community is it.

I am taking a new member of staff on (on top of the one i took on last week) on the 8th Feb (have to wait for a new computer which is expected to be delivered on the 6th) he told the job centre hes starting on the 8th and despite this they said sorry its mandatory that you have to go on this course. He now has to go for an meeting with the agency that provides the scheme (Pretemps i believe) on the 24th, where they will force him to work at the local pound land or equivalent. This is despite me calling the job centre advisor up on his behalf after he had told me about it on the phone, and asking why the hell hes being sent on it when is starting work for me on the 8th, its a waste of time and waste of taxpayers money. And despite me telling the jobcentre advisor he was starting work for me they said it was a mandatory course. Its not its voluntary, its only mandatory because the adivsor gets a bonus for each person they send on the course.

But the worse thing is, if he doesnt complete the course his job seekers will be stopped and it will be carried over if he signs of to when he signs on in future. Which means he can not start work for me till after hes finished the course, otherwise he risked losing his benefits for what 6 months if he ever needs to sign on again which he may well do if hes no good at the job i have for him. So how the hell does that make any sense? The guys got a job but can not start the job because he has to go on this work scheme of lose his benefits even if he signs off and signs back on just to start work for me instead of doing the course. That is bloody counter productive but its also keeping him on the dole longer too.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

Ms Reilly or anyone else should be paid at at least the minimum wage for doing the work in Poundland, if you work you should be paid.

[shell]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

Galahad, personally I don't think the problem is that she is forced to work. The problem is the lack of payment. By forcing people to do unpaid work in these big shops the dole office is doing someone who would actually like to do the job out of a job. Why would poundland pay someone when the dole office is going to send them free labour? Poundland probably even gets paid for taking on free labour in the guise of training.

Oh and Teaboy, I would go to the papers with that. He could actually lose a job because the dole office won't let him start when he should. Unreal, what planet do these people live on?

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

I would prefer to see taxpayers money subsidise the museum, through her continuing to volunteer there, than Poundland.

[teaboy2]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

The point is Galahad she volunteered to do the work at the museum, thats her free choice. So no one is forcing her to do forced labour for no pay at the musuem, and she has a better chance of getting a job at the musuem then at poundland that clearly just want free labour. But forcing her to do forced unpaid labour at poundland is not her free choice and in fact contributes sod all to the local community, where at the museum at least shes contributing to the local community, showing tourist round the museum, giving school children a tour. Shes not exactly going to give school children or tourists a tour of poundland now is she.

As for part time work, well maybe there is no part time work in her area either. In my area their is 200 people applyly for the same jobs thats 200/1 odds of getting a job round here. The odds are not in the job seekers favour. So that being said, how is the governments force labour scheme going to help her find a job? Its not. Soon as shes finished the course she will be back on signing on every 2 weeks for another 6 months, you know whatelse they have been doing this scheme for at least 5 years (A&E sound familiar) all were seeing now is the government giving it a freash lick of paint but nothing has changed at all. Its a waste taxpayers cash. Because your paying more to pay for the agencies staff that do the paper work that find them the 2 week placement then you would pay for benefits without the agencies. So its actually costing the taxpayer more.

As i said before the government should be working with businesses to find creative ways of getting people into work and also cut all the red tape. Am going to be taking on at least 50 people in the next 12 months as work from home self-employed trade partners (agents). Is the government supporting my company in doing that? No, i won't get a penny to cover my costs of doing so. There is no point in paying an employer £2,000 for taking on an Employee as that doesn't even cover the running costs generated by the employee or their wages for the first month, epescially as your stil training them and they are not making you a profit until the 2nd month. where £2,000 plus of that profit goes on covering the costs of having that employee. Hell 1 chair in my company that us used by an employee costs £2,000 month, so i have to make £2,001 per chair, before i start making a profit.

Its the system thats broke, the whole dam job centre system, and benefit system, they are not trying to fix it (as i said the forced 2 week labour has been going on for 5 years or more) they are simply trying to pass the blame on to the poor. Off course they won't blame their rich buddies or voters will they, after all they are tories.

[charitynjw]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

This is what is in the pipeline.

http://intensiveactivity.wordpress.c...bstard-writes/

http://www.w2wsolutions.co.uk/news-a...nouncement/371

[teaboy2]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

This is what is in the pipeline.

http://intensiveactivity.wordpress.c...bstard-writes/

http://www.w2wsolutions.co.uk/news-a...nouncement/371

So according to the second link once a person finishes the forced 2 week labour program they are going to be forced to do 30 hours work in the community (nothing mentioned about any wage) plus an additional 10 hours job searching at the program providers premisses for a further 28 weeks. How the hell is that going to help people find work, its not. It forcing them to do jobs that you pay the council for and no doubt but council workers out of the job. Oh i know sack all the council litter collection workers and get people on the dole to do wearing a jacket with the dole worker on the back. And best still how is it cutting the cost of the unemployed to the tax payer, its not the god dam providers get paid fees for each one they take on, on top of paying the jobseeker his/her benefits. Its the government simply using the scheme and exploiting the unemployed just to pay their buddies (the providers) more tax payers money. And not only that, when their is no jobs, how is the scheme going to change anything. They should keep it voluntary and not force people on to it.

Sorry but even the job search at the providers is based on the job centres own job adverts, so its not going to help them find a job. if they are working the other 30hrs then they are not going to be able to do their CV's or fill in applications for jobs, as they will have limited time to spare to do it. But more importantly, they will not be able to go out on the streets and call in at employers premises asking for work. Which is how the majority of people find work. Not all employers advertise with jobcentre or on directgov sites. The government is in my view simply marginalising the unemployed and pushing them to a side under the false pretense that they are helping them find work, where at the same time the government is doing sweet f all to help buisnesses to create jobs.
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I would prefer to see taxpayers money subsidise the museum, through her continuing to volunteer there, than Poundland.

The muesum in my town is closing because they council can not afford to subsidise it due to the cuts. so yet another community asset gone, along with the sale by the district council of our towns main carpark so that another large supermarket can be built (we have 4 already and a population in the town is less than 10,000 and about 50,000 in surrounding areas with their own supermarkets in nearby towns) which the local towns people are against. Is this the so called Big Society plan cameron has, or does th ewords big society mean the rich powerful society and the little poor people as the small no in society?

[shell]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

The obscenity continues.
http://jobcentreplus.jobhits.co.uk/T...T-id-BSD-27442

[bluebottle]

Re: Governments Unemployed Forced Labour on Jobless being tested in court

Believe it or not, those who do voluntary work with charities, including museums who are statutory charities, often go on to secure paid employment. Apparently, employers look more favourably on those candidates who do voluntary work between jobs, instead of doing nothing. When I was allowed to do therapeutic work whilst recovering from a nervous breakdown 15 years ago, I did voluntary work with a local charity that lead to a paid job with that charity. So, the young lady is likely to do better working at the museum on a voluntary basis than being blackmailed into working at Poundland for nothing. I still say the DWP and Poundland are going to get hammered.