Bank Bonus to run into Billions

Is there nothing that can be done to stop this ? There's people struggling big time because of these numpties, its totally disgusting.

BBC News - Bank bonuses

[Crispybacon]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

It seems there is no political will to stop it, and 'industry regulators' are toothless and treated with contempt.

I think now the power now has to come from consumers. If we did a run on all the banks and pulled out our money/savings/investments in protest they would soon change their ways.

How many people would be need for this to happen?!

[pallaz1851]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

Pallaz1851
I also read this article today, (plus their 40% increase in salaries before bonuses) along with a further article stating that even private sector wages are NOT expected to rise above inflation (approx 4%). Public sector wages are frozen or even reduced, along with impending 200,000 redundancies.
Also another area UNREGULATED are the Insolvency Practitioners (Priviledges people....they get paid the minute they walk through the door and unquestioned), where incredible charges/fees are made and monies withheld from creditors for an indeterminable period of time in their accounts earning them interest on other peoples money........what this shows is that when Maggie Thatcher preached her unregulated policy of 'Service Industry led prosperity' for the UK and the destruction of the manufacturing base of the UK....actually meant for a very small priviledged few.....who now know NO boundaries as to what they can monetarily acquire from the system....untold wealth, whilst the masses suffer extreme hardship in the current climate.

My solution would be to lay the cards on the table and call their bluff.....worldwide overall there are not the positions in other countries banking systems to absorb a mass exodus from the UK Banking.....saying you will move and actually moving, are two different things especially from the cushioned society they exist within the UK...Living in India, Asia, Middle East, USA may be a dream in the short term, DO NOT UNDERVALUE what we have in the UK.
So, call their bluff, see how many actuallly leave, don't forget this also frees up positions to be advertised in the UK at even generous (not exhorbitant) salaries, I am positive within my own mind there are enough people from abroad who would love to come and work here and enjoy a great lifestyle within UK.....TEST IT!!! we have nothing to lose.....why be blackmailed at all....

The trouble is we now have Boy George in charge of finances, this is a man from an extremely priviledged background who has not since leaving a £200,000 education system, even had any job........ outside of the Conservative Headquarters.

How can anyone percieve how ordinary people exist from that perspective?

Lol

[Amethyst]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

Something you feel quite passionately about then pallaz.

I think it is disgusting so much is still being paid out in bonuses, however I do have some sympathy for the employees who are receiving the bonuses.

Regardless of what the banks have done the employees were taken on on certain terms of employment, pay and bonus's form part of that contract. Bonus's calculated on certain returns bought in to the company, which the employees have worked towards and obtained. If those structures were wrong then it is the banks system at fault not the employees. They have mouths to feed too and a lifestyle to maintain based on their expectations of pay and bonuses. It would be impossible to just swipe bonuses out from under all employees without increasing pay substantially (and changing contracts somewhat) to fill the gap, or losing employees and all the investment put in to them over the years which may cost more.

I think they are working towards the right way of doing things but this year obviously they are left with the hangover of their old ways.

These include introducing independent remuneration committees and setting maximum levels of bonus payments as a percentage of basic salary.
They also include deferring between 40% and 60% of bonuses for between three and five years, paying half of them in shares rather than cash and excluding any rewards for failure.

[EXC]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

To: Mr John Varley
Group Chief Executive
Barclays Bank PLC
1 Churchill Place
London E14 5HP

From: EXC

31/1/07

Dear Mr Varley

I am writing regarding your net profits in recent years which I'm sure you'll agree are very small indeed. It must be enormously disappointing after putting in so much hard work and effort only to be rewarded with a bottom line of a paltry £178 trillion.

It must be sooooo difficult to motivate yourself yet you somehow manage to carry on in the face of adversity with the same passion, dignity and not to mention honesty. I have nothing but the highest admiration and respect for you personally and your bank as a whole. You're a hero.

Is it really true the entire UK banking industry only managed to scrape in barely £4.6 billion from current account penalty charges last year? Talk about tough times. It baffles me how you manage to keep the ship afloat.

But I want you to know that the whole nation is right behind you and soon every decent citizen throughout the land will be digging deep into their pockets and donating all they possibly can to help you through these desperate times.

Myself and my family have been very busy raising funds already. Although I'm blind, limbless and confined to a hospital bed, I've tried to do my bit by washing cars, busking and even selling my kidneys to the highest bidder (the pair fetched a heart-warming £1.72p on e-bay!} as well the 11 quid my 7 year old raised since I put her on the game.

So please find enclosed £20. Not much I know but at least it'll get you a half decent glass of claret. Also expect a package from my elderly mother who's put together a few tins of soup and a packet of low fat muffins for you and your family. She's terribly worried that your parlous financial state may mean you're not eating properly.

Pip pip!

EXC

[leclerc]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

I think I have always defended bonuses based on targets. As such, the two banks that the government has shares in, are private companies. You are rewarded with bonuses for effectively producing income. I know that RBS and Lloydstsb have specifics attached to the payment of bonuses with regards to cash bonuses and bonuses related to longer term growth rather than simply we made x amount so should be paid accordingly.
With regards to other institutions paying bonuses, they are in the private sector so should be able to pay whatever bonuses they want. There is still a bonus tax, if memory serves me right, on amounts over a certain amount which I think(please correct me if I'm wrong) is £2 million.
Cash bonuses are subject to tax, selling shares as bonuses are subject to tax and so on and so on. We do benefit indirectly as a state based on tax paid.
Sorry, but I agree with the payment of bonuses.

[pallaz1851]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

Dearest Amethyst,

You would not believe the passion I hold for the Banks, due in no small part to the way I have been treated by them....but that is a long and winding story which goes to make the person that I am.

With regard to Bank personnel and I take it we are referring to 'front line' here. I have no gripe with them whatsoever, they chose and partake within their careers and advance to whatever grade within that, their bonuses are minimal compared to upstairs anyway and probably richly deserved for the 'abuse' they take from 'Customers/Commodities - for that it what we are!!....out of futile frustration). I refer to the 'Casino style Banking' that is definitely UNREGULATED. I read of one dealer paid 50 Million pounds 'Bonus' last year, has moved to Switzerland to avoid Boy George's 50% tax on his bonus payment.
OK, but surely this country has a right to examine his conduct over the last 3/5 years to see whether his 'Investments' on behalf of his employers ACTUALLY did, achieve whatever result that generated this exhorbitant bonus, over and above his salary......if NOT then surely we also have the right to sequestrate his assets as he is no different to a Drug dealer with illicit assets .......whom if ever caught, certainly would have his assets sequestrated......(Here I would put to you the CEO's and Board room management of Halifax and Northern Rock....never mind RBS guy).....Halifax MUST have been trading illegally at least 6 months before Brown put the 'gun' to Lloyds head and made them take it on board....even with a generous cash helping from HMGov.

You will note that so far.....No-one has faced any criminal charges in this country for conduct causing or contributing to the collapse of the Banking system within the UK....in fact most have probably done a runner......

This country has a lot to offer, the trouble is that individuals, manufacturing, entrepreneurs, are NOT being helped at all, the vast amount of monies poured into the Banks (too big to fail) is sitting there doing no good at all for the general populace....I have my own thoughts who is actually benefitting from all of this.......the woman from the BBA who comes on TV is no more than a 'spin doctor' she tells us that the Banks are lending more than they were, how many FTB's have actually achieved a mortgage over 2010 in ratio to the applications, yet how many BTL's have had money thrown at them to buy up all the properties that the FTB's are now having to rent instead? furthermore GRANT SHAPPS - housing Minister posted an article that the BTL brigade will 'Reduce' rental charges.......Oh my giddy aunt!!!!!
We on this Island have too many people, not enough housing at all (never achieved targets under Brown, now targets slashed by Condemned), rents can ONLY go up!!!.....SZhapps is an idiot!!

Anyway, that's my rant for this morning on a subject very dear to me as I have three children whose future is mixed at best, diabolical at worst.....
Lol

[Sapphire]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

I have no problem whatsoever with profitable companies paying bonuses, hell we have a small business ourselves and have paid our one member of staff and ourselves a bonus for crimbo.
What I do have a problem with is companies/banks that have been bailed out by the tax payer giving out bonuses, its a shame that the 'workers' for those companies would miss out but then again the debt to the tax payers should be paid first.
I hope that clarifies my feelings.

[leclerc]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

Just to clarify, no one was paid £50 million pounds in bonus at any bank in the world last year however I think you are referring to Lloyd Blankfein who was paid over $50 million+ bonus in 2006
Lloyd Blankfein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
He was CEO of Goldman Sachs at the time
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

I have no problem whatsoever with profitable companies paying bonuses, hell we have a small business ourselves and have paid our one member of staff and ourselves a bonus for crimbo.
What I do have a problem with is companies/banks that have been bailed out by the tax payer giving out bonuses, its a shame that the 'workers' for those companies would miss out but then again the debt to the tax payers should be paid first.
I hope that clarifies my feelings.

Saffy, we are shareholders in the banks so the more profit they make and hopefully the share price increase will make us money. Currently and I am using RBS Group as my base because I know their share price pretty well and the price that we as taxpayers bought shares at, we are making a loss. In fact, we bought at 66p per share and even analysts believe that the true price of the shares at best should be 50p per share. Whilst casino banking should be more regulated, we have to give incentives for performance. Banks DO NOT give Christmas bonuses whatsoever and never have done so. They used to subsidise Christmas parties but they stopped doing this a few years ago.

[pallaz1851]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

Just to clarify, I apologise to Leclerc in stating that it was 'last year', my exhuberance overran my brain in the timings of my inhouse mental library.

2008 - what a year that was - remember the collapse of Banking....who knows what went before.....
See below for item saved...

Remember when the UK imposed a 50% bonus tax at the beginning of this year?
Courtney Comstock |Jul. 30, 2010, 2:52 PM|
When the UK announced a 50% bonus tax, Alan Howard almost immediately opened an office to allow many of his hedge fund's, Brevan Howard's, employees to move out of London to Switzerland.
Now Moore Capital is also opening a new office outside of London, mostly so that traders who don't want their bonuses cut in half can leave if they want to.
The firm confirmed to Bloomberg that two of their traders are leaving, one of whom is a really big deal for London to lose.
Jean- Philippe Blochet, a senior partner at the firm. The other is Kornelius Klobucar, a portfolio manager. Both traders leaving London just cost the city millions of pounds in taxes.
London will have to add those numbers to the growing amount that high paid individuals are costing the city as they leave for places with lower taxes.
Take the massive exodus of Brevan Howard employees for example.
When the tax went into effect on April 6th requiring anyone earning more than 150,000 pounds to pay 50%, it was almost funny how quickly Alan Howard, whose fund manages more than £30 billion, personally left London for Switzerland.
He filed his departure as soon as June.
The Brevan Howard Geneva office alone can apparently house about 40 employees. So let's say that, on average, each of those employees earns £10 million (Howard alone earns at least £300 million per year (2% of £30 billion is £600 million), so that's a fair if not very conservative estimate
(another example: Moore Capital star trader, Kaveh Alamouti, 52, took home between £50 million and £75 million in 2008, according to This is Money).
Fifty percent of ten million dollars forty times over (40 employees) is £200 million, plus Howard's ~minimum £150 million per year. That's £350 million, at least.
Now add £50 million for each of the Moore Capital traders now leaving London, assuming both make ~£50 million each.
It hasn't even been six months since the tax was in place and the city of London alone has lost well over £400 million.

Amazing amount of money over and above salary, whichever way you look at it.....

[leclerc]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

Moore Capital is not a bank but a hedge fund. Their bonuses are irrelevant, imho to the discussion of bank bonuses.

[EXC]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

Saffy, we are shareholders in the banks so the more profit they make and hopefully the share price increase will make us money. Currently and I am using RBS Group as my base because I know their share price pretty well and the price that we as taxpayers bought shares at, we are making a loss. In fact, we bought at 66p per share and even analysts believe that the true price of the shares at best should be 50p per share. Whilst casino banking should be more regulated, we have to give incentives for performance. Banks DO NOT give Christmas bonuses whatsoever and never have done so. They used to subsidise Christmas parties but they stopped doing this a few years ago.

Bonuses in themselves don't increase profitability - they reduce it.

[leclerc]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

Bonuses in themselves don't increase profitability - they reduce it.

What does not paying bonuses at all to staff for making their business more profitable do to staff who are helping increase that profitability against targets set?

[enaid]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

When I get my head around the fact staff are paid a bonus on reaching certain targets, these targets probably set on the very stuff being mis sold to us poor folk.
Then when I get my head around the fact that the top cats no matter how big a bollock they drop can hold their heads up after taking fom us not once but twice(the first time when they used our money and blew it, the second when we bailed them out for doing so), then I may comment on this thread.
Enaid x

[leclerc]

Re: Bank Bonus to run into Billions

The bonus is for exceeding targets and not for just hitting them. You cannot pay a bonus for not hitting a bonus within the area of banking that you work within because is plain silly.