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Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

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  • Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

    Poorest people being hit hardest as banks 'reverse Robin Hood'









    Published Date: 10 June 2010
    By LUCY COLLINS
    SOCIETY'S poorest people are being unfairly penalised by the major high street banks, Citizens Advice Scotland claims.
    The organisation's research – Fully Charged – said banks imposed unfair overdraft fees on their poorest customers in "a reverse Robin Hood effect". Poor people were subsidising richer customers, despite being the hardest hit by fees, it said.




    report found that banks penalised low-income customers when they went overdrawn through no fault of their own, and forced customers further into debt by offering consolidation loans.

    Citizens Advice acting chief executive Susan McPhee said: "Despite all the talk from banks about how they were going to be more responsible and help people through the recession, here we see the real story: the banks are still imposing heavy charges on vulnerable people.

    "While the charges are unfair for everyone, those who are poorest are having to fork out a much higher proportion of their income than those who are better off. Indeed, these charges mean the poor are actually subsidising the rich, like a reverse Robin Hood effect."

    Citizens Advice said it has a client with poor mental health whose £2 overdraft resulted in £180 of charges over two months. Another person was charged £66 for going 60p overdrawn, and one 77-year-old was charged £300 in one month because of single bounced transaction.

    Ms McPhee said: "These cases are at the extreme end, but they are not rare. And the fact they are happening at all is appalling."

    The support and advice service is calling for bank charges to be "proportionate to their level of infringement". Customers who go overdrawn by pennies should be charged less than someone who is overdrawn by hundreds of pounds, it said.

    Former Scottish Labour leader Wendy Alexander backed the Citizens Advice Scotland report. The Paisley North MSP lodged a motion with the Scottish Parliament urging the Scottish and UK governments and the banks "to work toward ending unfair charges that affect millions of customers".

    "For people on low incomes, a hefty overdraft charge can lead to a vicious cycle which is hard to get out of," Ms Alexander said. "It is time banks ensured their charging regimes do not disproportionately hit their most vulnerable customers."

    Liberal Democrat finance spokesman Jeremy Purvis MSP said: "Punishing overdraft fees can tip vulnerable customers already walking a financial tightrope into debt. It simply isn't right that someone on a low income should pay £25 or more to their bank just because they're overdrawn by a pound or two."

    'Sneaky' Bank of Scotland charged student £48 in fees for 1p debit

    JULIA Turner, a 19-year-old student, spotted a T-shirt which cost £5 and bought it. The problem was that she only had £4.99 credit left in her account, and although the purchase left her only 1p over her maximum limit, Bank of Scotland charged her a total of £48 in fees.

    The 19-year-old, who lives in Newhaven, was stunned when she got a letter from the Bank of Scotland outlining the charges: a £20 administrative fee for going over her £500 limit, plus a further "unauthorised overdraft fee" of £28. Ms Turner, who is due to start a fashion course in Glasgow after the summer, has been told by the bank that she will have to pay up.

    She said: "I thought I had a fiver left on my card, so I was shocked to receive the letter. I would have paid the 1p in cash if I had any idea I'd gone over. I thought if I ever went over my overdraft my card would be rejected, so I think it's a bit sneaky that they'd let me spend money and then charge a fortune. I am putting every penny towards my college fund so it seems a shame to pay such an unnecessary sum."

    Ms Turner's father, Douglas, said the bank's attitude was a disgrace. He said: "I remember a time when banks actually cared about their customers. This practice might be legal but it's not right." At the time the Bank of Scotland said it was looking into the case.

    Source: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks 'reverse Robin Hood' - Scotsman.com News

    ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
    I cannot find the report online so if anyone can do that would be appreciated. The story came out as a result of this:

    "*S3M-6519 Ms Wendy Alexander: Citizens Advice Scotland’s report, Fully Charged—That the Parliament notes Citizens Advice Scotland’s most recent report, Fully Charged, which raises concerns about the continuing effects of what is considered to be unfair and disproportionate overdraft charges on vulnerable and low-income people; notes evidence from Citizens Advice Bureaux across Scotland showing that charges impact disproportionately on those least able to cope with them; believes that many people in Scotland receive high bank charges arising from situations over which they have little control; further believes that banks are failing to help customers in financial difficulty despite receiving taxpayer support, and urges the Scottish and UK governments and the banks to work toward ending unfair charges that affect millions of customers."

    Scottish Parliament - Business Bulletin
    Last edited by natweststaffmember; 10th June 2010, 05:19:AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  • #2
    Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

    I like it they publish this story a day before the charges case in scotland good work.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

      Thank you to the Citizen's Advice Scotland for emailing me a copy of the report which is now attached with their briefing. All copyright for the material lies with the CAB Scotland.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

        A brief quote from the report:

        "Low income customers subsidise banking for higher income customers

        The upshot of the variety of charges that clients can incur has resulted in a substantial cross subsidisation from those who incur charges and those who do not. According to the OFT market study on personal current accounts1, and supported by our evidence, this cross subsidisation is from low income, low saving clients, to high income, higher saving consumers – a kind of reverse Robin Hood effect. The revenue made from the customers who incur charges is actually keeping the cost of an account low for other higher income customers."
        ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
        and
        "10. There is a common myth that overdraft charges are only incurred by customers that are careless with their money and who lack the budgeting skills needed to stay in the black. Indeed, there is a public perception, often propagated in the media and by banks, that charges are generally levied at shopaholics or big spenders who splash out on goods that they could never afford. This has progressed to a feeling that overdraft charges are somehow fair in that they only target irresponsible spenders, and that to reform bank charges would be unfair on the rest of us.
        11. However, a great number of those facing bank charges do so for other reasons such as low income, job loss, mistakes by banks, or problems with benefit payments or direct debits. In the experience of the Scottish CAB, many of these events happen out with the client‟s control, but ultimately lead to the client being overdrawn and incurring multiple charges. These charges can be so high that the client, who is more often than not vulnerable with a low income, has little chance of escaping from the cycle of debt that ensues. In our experience, it is not the case that most clients don‟t learn from the first charge – it is much more likely that high charges and low income make another charge unavoidable."
        Last edited by natweststaffmember; 10th June 2010, 13:14:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

          Okay not sure why this is published now, I presume this is their submission to the OFT / LSB and a kick up the butt to the Lib Dems ? have they attributed the reverse Robin hood quote to Lord Phillips then lol. Just seems a bit late, theres a working group working on opt outs and hardship issues right now. The LSB is also reviewing the offset issues. I have no idea how far the work being undertaken extends to scotland. it is a good report, spells out the issues we deal with all the time and the bods at the top dont seem to be able to comprehend, and its pressure and it can only help the fight for fairness in the future.
          #staysafestayhome

          Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

          Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

            Am clarifying some of the points you raise Amethyst as will report back either here or privately to you on that clarification.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

              Fully Charged - Scottish CAB evidence on overdraft charges

              Link to the report now available on their website
              And the briefing paper
              Fully Charged

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

                I remember,years ago probably early 90's when my kids were still little. For some reason my pay went in a day or two late. I think i had something like a tenner left in the bank before payday, but my dd of £11 came out for tv licence. Well clydesdale bank bounced the dd because I had no overdraft facility but put my account into the red for £25 for thier charges. I was furious and went to the bank. I argued thatbecause I had NO overdraft facilty how could they decide to give me one when it suited them. Now this is a lot of years ago and I got nowhere but it wasn't fair. They still do this to people when it suits.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

                  Hi everone is that case in scotland supposed to be today does anyone know?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

                    Originally posted by davidl View Post
                    Hi everone is that case in scotland supposed to be today does anyone know?
                    Yes govan law centre case is today.

                    Govan Law Centre
                    That is their website so keep an eye on that.

                    To answer amethyst, their report took 6 months to compile and was not a result of any consultation paper.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

                      Okay - can you ask if they have submitted a copy to the OFT / LSB working group ? ta xx
                      #staysafestayhome

                      Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                      Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

                        Originally posted by davidl View Post
                        Hi everone is that case in scotland supposed to be today does anyone know?
                        Hi David

                        its today, but its a proof (evidential) hearing so there won't really be a big announcement or victory today. Its part of the legal process.

                        However, positive or favourable feedback from today would certain rekindle hope.

                        So it may be some time before we hear a result ie win/ lose.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

                          15 MPs have signed an Early Day Motion in support of the report.

                          UK Parliament - Early Day Motions By Details

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

                            Left hand have a clue what right is doing?
                            #staysafestayhome

                            Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                            Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Poorest people being hit hardest as banks "reverse Robin Hood"

                              Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                              Okay - can you ask if they have submitted a copy to the OFT / LSB working group ? ta xx
                              LSB do have a copy of the report and will be giving Professor Crerar who is doing a review of the LSB Code at the moment.

                              Comment

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