please help with joint life cover - life insurance nightmare - since my dad died HELP

[Aratron]

please can anyone help me, with some advice.

my dad died on 7.8.13

i am his son and he left everything to me in his will, however he was a man of very little means.

he got a quarterly pension from pearl assurance now managed by phoenix life.

i informed them of his death, and then subsequently as i changed my dad's affairs to my address, i got an annual statement. in his name only for a payment on death figure of around 10k. it said it was (not guaranteed).

i filled out some forms with the company and hoped to get the monies.

i know they are not a very good firm and they tell me very little when i ring.

on thursday the 12.9.13 i rang and they said it was at the first stage of authorisation and i would receive just over 10 k and that a bacs payment would be processed.

then on 14.9.13 i received a letter dated the 11.9.13 saying my dad had one annuity with phoenix life.
that it was 'purchased on a joint life basis, and as my father was not married on the date of his passing, the annuity has now completed with no further benefits due.'

this has come as a bit of shock to me. as when he took out the policy in 1990, he was co-habiting with his first wife, i am his only son to his second and last wife who is also divorced from. He only lived with her for about a year and they separated and we haven't seen her since.

I cannot believe my dad would sign up for a joint life policy unless he didn't know really what he was signing.

can anyone give me any advice, i'm at my wits end, and im thinking of seeing a solicitor to take the matter further rather than an ifa.

i'm going to ring phoenix life tomorrow to find out what the hell is going on, esp with them on thursday giving me the impression it was being paid out and then sending a letter dated the day before which says otherwise.
however they say very little on the phone and are very unhelpful.

desperate for help!

[des8]

Re: please help with joint life cover - life insurance nightmare - since my dad died

Hi and welcome to Legal Beagles.

Without actually seeing the documentation it is difficult to give a firm opinion.
However it SEEMS your father did not have life assurance, but a joint life annuity.
These are designed to give a pension throughout the lifetime of the purchaser, and on his passing to continue paying a pension to the surviving partner (if there is one). Some will also pay a lump sum to the surviving partner.This could be the £10k.
A single life annuity stops paying on the death of the purchaser (unless it is for a guaranteed period)

Could your father have purchased a Capital Protected Annuity which allows for what is left of the fund to be repaid to his estate if he died before the age of (I think) 75?

You say he purchased the annuity whilst he was with his first wife, so a joint life annuity would seem to have been suitable. With certain reservations the pension would have benefited his second wife, but on divorce there would be no beneficiary surviving when your father passed away.

I guess this is why the letter says the annuity has been completed with no further benefits due.

You were possibly wrongly advised when you phoned, because the person you spoke to misread the computer screen.

As always with these problems, the answer lies in the actual wording of the relevant document

[gaz2006]

Re: please help with joint life cover - life insurance nightmare - since my dad died

Joint policies are exactly that joint and if annuitant dies pension or part of it passes to the other joint policyholder it doesnt pass to son or descendents ... you dont have a claim Im afraid as it stands if it was meant to go to you then it would be joint with you i dont think anything you can do at all sorry it was written for benefit of his wife etc regards Gary

please can anyone help me, with some advice.

my dad died on 7.8.13

i am his son and he left everything to me in his will, however he was a man of very little means.

he got a quarterly pension from pearl assurance now managed by phoenix life.

i informed them of his death, and then subsequently as i changed my dad's affairs to my address, i got an annual statement. in his name only for a payment on death figure of around 10k. it said it was (not guaranteed).

i filled out some forms with the company and hoped to get the monies.

i know they are not a very good firm and they tell me very little when i ring.

on thursday the 12.9.13 i rang and they said it was at the first stage of authorisation and i would receive just over 10 k and that a bacs payment would be processed.

then on 14.9.13 i received a letter dated the 11.9.13 saying my dad had one annuity with phoenix life.
that it was 'purchased on a joint life basis, and as my father was not married on the date of his passing, the annuity has now completed with no further benefits due.'

this has come as a bit of shock to me. as when he took out the policy in 1990, he was co-habiting with his first wife, i am his only son to his second and last wife who is also divorced from. He only lived with her for about a year and they separated and we haven't seen her since.

I cannot believe my dad would sign up for a joint life policy unless he didn't know really what he was signing.

can anyone give me any advice, i'm at my wits end, and im thinking of seeing a solicitor to take the matter further rather than an ifa.

i'm going to ring phoenix life tomorrow to find out what the hell is going on, esp with them on thursday giving me the impression it was being paid out and then sending a letter dated the day before which says otherwise.
however they say very little on the phone and are very unhelpful.

desperate for help!

[Aratron]

Re: please help with joint life cover - life insurance nightmare - since my dad died

Joint policies are exactly that joint and if annuitant dies pension or part of it passes to the other joint policyholder it doesnt pass to son or descendents ... you dont have a claim Im afraid as it stands if it was meant to go to you then it would be joint with you i dont think anything you can do at all sorry it was written for benefit of his wife etc regards Gary

no i don't think i will get any monies. but when he did take out the policy he was already twice divorced. he was reliving with his first wife but only cohabiting hey weren't married. however she is still alive, so should the money go to her? they separated again about a year after he took the policy out, im just sore because i don't think he would have wanted any monies to go to her.
should i trace her and ask phoenix life to pay her the money?

[Aratron]

Re: please help with joint life cover - life insurance nightmare - since my dad died

Hi and welcome to Legal Beagles.

Without actually seeing the documentation it is difficult to give a firm opinion.
However it SEEMS your father did not have life assurance, but a joint life annuity.
These are designed to give a pension throughout the lifetime of the purchaser, and on his passing to continue paying a pension to the surviving partner (if there is one). Some will also pay a lump sum to the surviving partner.This could be the £10k.
A single life annuity stops paying on the death of the purchaser (unless it is for a guaranteed period)

Could your father have purchased a Capital Protected Annuity which allows for what is left of the fund to be repaid to his estate if he died before the age of (I think) 75?

You say he purchased the annuity whilst he was with his first wife, so a joint life annuity would seem to have been suitable. With certain reservations the pension would have benefited his second wife, but on divorce there would be no beneficiary surviving when your father passed away.

I guess this is why the letter says the annuity has been completed with no further benefits due.

You were possibly wrongly advised when you phoned, because the person you spoke to misread the computer screen.

As always with these problems, the answer lies in the actual wording of the relevant document

i don't have the original policy document and i would like phoenix life to provide with a copy of it, just so i can see it with my own eyes. all the paperwork i had seen previously did not say it was a joint policy, it seemed to be in his name only.
my dad was 70 when he died.
i just think it would be sad for phoenix life to keep hold of 5000 or 10000 worth of money, of what my dad paid in.
even if it goes to his exwife i would rather that happen.

i don't think my dad would have taken out a capital protected annuity, i don't think he really knew what he was doing at the time if he purchased a joint life insurance/pension at the time.

[gaz2006]

Re: please help with joint life cover - life insurance nightmare - since my dad died

You need see copy of policy if it says to wife names her if she still alive she may get it but im confused as to what it said on policy ..........if its ex or divorced etc if shes alive and its on the policy to go to her she should get it but usually its say 50% of annuity or 33% etc but maybe it has clause to pay out lump sum you need the policy and establish when done who was he living with whose named on it etc regards gary

no i don't think i will get any monies. but when he did take out the policy he was already twice divorced. he was reliving with his first wife but only cohabiting hey weren't married. however she is still alive, so should the money go to her? they separated again about a year after he took the policy out, im just sore because i don't think he would have wanted any monies to go to her.
should i trace her and ask phoenix life to pay her the money?

[gaz2006]

Re: please help with joint life cover - life insurance nightmare - since my dad died

terms of policy are quite clear if your dad lived to say 100 he wins if he does not and 50% to wife for rest of her life maybe she and him win if he does before all monies paid out the insurance company win ...they dont do anything for free its not his money its the companies they take a risk based on his age health etc of how much they are going to pay out ..... he has been given an annuity based on that risk ie pension ... sorry im just stating the facts youve seemed to got huff as you dont get the money your not entitled to it in any case and its not your dads money he had an annuity from it regards Gary

i don't have the original policy document and i would like phoenix life to provide with a copy of it, just so i can see it with my own eyes. all the paperwork i had seen previously did not say it was a joint policy, it seemed to be in his name only.
my dad was 70 when he died.
i just think it would be sad for phoenix life to keep hold of 5000 or 10000 worth of money, of what my dad paid in.
even if it goes to his exwife i would rather that happen.

i don't think my dad would have taken out a capital protected annuity, i don't think he really knew what he was doing at the time if he purchased a joint life insurance/pension at the time.

[Aratron]

Re: please help with joint life cover - life insurance nightmare - since my dad died

No worries. Thanks for the info.