Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

[Pipsqueak]

My mother passed a few months ago. She needed and I'd had an accident so was relying on my sister for info. (sister had refused help when I was able). My sister only told certain siblings (10 of us) mum was ill and she helped her make a will in which she named her children equally but made my sister executor believing her to be impartial as my siblings hardly talk to eachother. I was very upset that my sister had not shared info about my mum as I'd believed us to be close and thought her trustworthy. Since she took up executor duties, I realise how wrong I have been. I have asked about personal items belonging to our mum (some originally nan') but my sister claims it all went to 'auction' - I know this is untrue. There are many small issues. However, the biggest issue is my request for the monies due to me as my share be passed (via deed of variation) to my children instead. She has refused and her solicitor is backing her. He claims it cannot be done as its "not legal"; "money laundering", "has to be agreed by all beneficiaries and executor, all of whom refuse" - these are all words directly from his mouth. I am now in a position where they claim I am entitled to no information and must accept a cheque payable to me, without a dov within 2 weeks or I can apply to court. I must add that the sum being divided is the sale price of a house my mum was encouraged to downgrade to by my sister and there is an equal sum (the difference between the sale price of the first house and the purchase price of the 2nd house) that is unaccounted for. I have been informed that "Mrs F's finances before she died were her business, not yours". I think my sister, and possibly a brother have taken this amount (over 400,000) themselves.
Should I be entering a caveat to prevent this going further or is there some other action I should take?

[Kati]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

tagging [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] [MENTION=141]enaid[/MENTION] [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] xx

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to LB [MENTION=97360]Pipsqueak[/MENTION]

[Pipsqueak]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

Thanks Kati

[enaid]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

Hi and welcome and I am sorry for your loss and the situation with your family after such an upsetting time.
Firstly I am sure you can vary your share of the inheritance and you do not need the others permission to do so. I also think you have quite a while to do it before or after probate is granted. Someone else will be along soon to either confirm this or tell you different.
As for the items you say are missing from the estate all should be accounted for in the estate accounts, I presume you haven't seen them, but you are entitled to so ask for them after the estate has been finalised.
Have you discussed this with any of the other siblings?
It is in all your interests to know exactly what is going on and even if you are not as close as you would like they are entitled to know about your feelings on this and how you think things are not right.
Like i say you will get more replies and advice on this so hang fire and good luck. [MENTION=85500]Peridot[/MENTION]

[des8]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

As per Enaid and awaiting Peridot's comments, but my understanding is that the executor cannot refuse unless it increases the IHT to be paid and the estate's assets aren't sufficient to meet the increased liability

[Peridot]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

Hi Pipsqueak,
From your post it seems that the Grant of Probate has already been obtained? If it has then a caveat will be of no use. A caveat prevents the Grant from being made.
As far as paying your share to your children, I am afraid that the solicitor is correct. All the residuary beneficiaries would have to agree to this. What was the reason to do this? Is it to do with the amount and benefit entitlement for example? If not then can you not accept the legacy and pay it to your children yourself?
As a residuary beneficiary you are entitled to see a copy of the final accounts which will say what value of assets there were at the date your mother died, the payments that have had to be made, whether to DWP, solicitors fees, funeral and the like or outstanding debts due eg credit card. It will also show what each beneficiary receives which from your post should be the same for each of you? Have you seen the Will?

In some ways the solicitor is correct but maybe could have explained things in a more sympathetic way to you. What your mother did with any of her money before she died is up to her. The relevant assets are those that she held on the day she died. If your mother had capacity until she died, and no-one was acting as her attorney then there is not really anything you can do with regard to how she spent any money during her lifetime, unless you believe there has been fraud, in which case you should be reporting this.

You said that your mother passed away a few months ago. I am surprised you are being paid your legacies so quickly if there is also a property to be sold, but it isn't impossible to deal with things so quickly. Are you sure that this isn't an interim payment pending house sale? Have you got a copy of the Grant of Probate (you can apply for a copy which will also include a copy of the Will, from the probate registry - £12) which will indicate the gross and net value of the estate so at least you will have a ball park figure to work from (although fees etc will still be deducted from the net figure).

I would suggest asking for a copy of the estate accounts from the solicitor, maybe say that relations have broken down with your sister so you can't ask her. Also ask, if you don't know, whether this is a full and final payment in respect of your residuary beneficiary legacy.

Have things been dragging on for a while? I wonder why they have given you 2 weeks to accept. It does appear somewhat heavy handed bearing in mind your mother has only just passed away in the last few months.

I hope this clarifies some bits, pop back on if needs be.

[Pipsqueak]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

Thank you Enaid, des8 and Peridot for your responses. Apologies for the delay my end.

The will (passed on at last - solicitor originally refused), states we are all left an equal share, but names the sister in question as executor.

For the last 18 months, since mum moved house, she was her 'carer' (jailer would be more accurate as she had a tight grip and controlled everything, even who mum saw).

The sister already sold the house (it was 6 months ago mum passed, sorry if I made it sound more recent) and has taken control of everything. The solicitor is doing nothing, other than dealing with me, on my sister's behalf, since I started asking questions and she became hostile. The solicitor is not actually supposed to be involved any longer as my sister "wanted to do it all herself".

The 400,000 discrepancy would either still have been in mum's account when she passed or my sister has taken it some time in the last 18 months. There is no way mum could possibly have spent it.
The payment they damage I accept is a final payment and the final 'accounts' are nothing more than an a4 sheet, typed by my sister (with sums in incorrect columns) with no evidence of anything.
How can I find out what mum had in her account when she passed?

HMRC have said that a dov does not need agreement from all other beneficiaries unless it alters the amount of tax they pay. In this case it would not. Even if they need to agree, my sister/her solicitor won't ask.

The solicitor is only acting for my sister to deal with me as she 'wants nothing to do with me' (this is sudden). He's not handling the estate and obviously knows there is a breakdown in communication
but is enjoying it as it's lining his pocket.
So far, I have had 3 letters from my sister and her solicitor (she types them up, he passes them along with his headed paper at the top of the pile) and he's charged her almost £1000, which she paid for with estate funds. I didn't think she could do this either?

[enaid]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

HMRC have said that a dov does not need agreement from all other beneficiaries unless it alters the amount of tax they pay.

I was going to ask about the DOV as it need only be signed by anyone who's is left worse of by it, or that's how I understood and thought maybe I was wrong.
You can get a copy of the probate record https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inh...robate-records it should give the gross/net value of the estate as declared by the executor.
They don't have records of the estate accounts but you should get an idea of the value put on the estate from that and see if the 400k you mentioned was declared.

[Pipsqueak]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

Hi Enaid. Yes, that's exactly what they say - you put it much better than I did.
I will take your advice re probate records but cannot imagine that my sister as executor (and having access to mum's finances prior to her passing) has declared it.

[enaid]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/woman...ail/story.html

Section 25

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/.../23/section/25

The swearing on oath can be done at a solicitors

[Pipsqueak]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

Thanks again Enaid.
The first link seems to be exactly what's going on here. The second is very helpful.
I just cant get over the fact that her solicitor has obviously taken money from the estate to pass letters to me but does not seem to have concerned himself with making sure she knows the responsibilities and legalities of her role as executor.

[enaid]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

If the solicitor is only working for your sister on a personal basis to deal with you and is not doing actual on estate business then imo she should be paying for his services out of her own pocket, just my opinion.

[Peridot]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

Hi Pipsqueak,
Solicitors fees are allowed to be deducted from the estate in relation to dealing with the executor and the advice she receives on how to deal. As your sister is the executor and apparently 'instructed' the solicitor on matters relating to the estate the fees are paid from the estate.

I think the issue of the DOV is slightly more complicated. I suspect that your sister may have asked the solicitor and they will have pointed out the various issues that she has to consider which include the agreement of the beneficiaries if they are affected (sorry I may have misled you previously, all those affected would need to sign a DOV) Are your children over 18 and able to give valid receipt?

There may be other issues arising for you in preparing a DOV, which could include situations where, for example a beneficiary on benefits, as DWP may still consider the inheritance for the purpose of evaluating means tested benefits and/or any future care home contributions, as the beneficiary will have voluntarily deprived themselves of the money. The DWP could adjust benefits accordingly irrelevant of whether the original beneficiary received the money or not.

You appear to indicate that you have received what the executor believes to be final estate accounts? As I'm sure you are aware the purpose of the account is to show all the assets of the estate, the payment of debts, administration expenses, income accrued, payments on account made and legacies paid and the balance remaining for the residuary beneficiaries. The balance will normally be represented by a combination of assets transferred to the beneficiaries in kind or cash. Approval of the accounts is shown by signature of the beneficiaries on the accounts releasing the Executors from further liability to the beneficiaries in the absence of fraud or failure to disclose assets.

If you believe that there should have been more assets at the date your mother died, have you any proof of this? Have you discussed this with any of your siblings? What is their view?

Your sister as executor can be held personally liable for various things that can occur between death and during the administration such as fraud, negligence or issues with trusts created with Wills. However your situation appears to have occurred prior to your mother's death, if the funds are not shown on the estate accounts (and you don't think that there is another account that has not been declared?).

Do you suspect that the house sale funds were not paid to your mother? Was the house in her name or had the legal title been changed, prior to being sold? Had she entered an arrangement with your sister when she moved to live with her? Any arrangement may not be fair in your view, but may have been your mother's choice, provided she had capacity. Did she enter into an equity release type scheme? There are some horrendous ones out there, where a relatively small amount say £10k borrowed some 15-20 years ago may then claws back 75% of proceeds of the sale of a property? There are numerous explanations which I don't think it is unreasonable for you to ask.

There are a lot of questions that would need to be answered before you could decide whether this is something to be pursued. I would also suggest that it will be difficult for you to do this alone. If any of your siblings have similar views, could you join forces and try and piece together any information between you before taking some legal advice about the options that may be open to you?

It is very much 2 separate issues. If you believe your sister as executor has not declared assets that belonged to your mother and were in her name, when she died then that is one issue. If the concern is not about what has been declared at the date your mother died but was during her lifetime then this is a different issue.

I would suggest finding as much information as possible, if you have any old papers or letters which indicate mum's ownership of the house, sale and any other info you may have concerning her financial affairs, before seeking advice on possible options with regard to litigation. You could ask your sister for copy bank statements that she obtained, in order to deal with obtaining the grant, but I doubt she will be that helpful.

If you believe the executor has been negligent you will need to obtain some advice from a probate litigation specialist. I would suggest in the first instance writing to your sister and the solicitor requesting further info about the accounts that have been declared in the estate accounts, pointing out that you are concerned that an account or maybe shares have been missed, bearing in mind the amount of money you believe your mother received some 18 months ago upon sale of her property. Maybe couch it in terms that you believe there is probably a simple explanation, but were concerned that maybe an account had been missed from the estate valuation? It may prompt a more sensible response, although I doubt it from what you said the solicitors response was last time, but it would be helpful to have it in writing. If you are seriously thinking of pursuing this it is necessary for you to have seen to have been reasonable in your requests. If you get a response from the solicitor it may also confirm whether they believe the executor (or maybe them on her behalf at the outset) contacted all banks that they were aware of.

Maybe once you know how your siblings are feeling about this (if that is an option), try and find a free half hour with a local litigation solicitor who can explain any options and also confirm what evidence you would need in order to prove there has been some wrongdoing that your mother had not agreed to in order to have a chance of bringing a claim against anyone.

[leicesterman]

Re: Executor and beneficiary hiding assets

Sounds like a complicated situation