Old creditor wants more info

[rgnsd]

As executor I am working hard to write to all creditors that I have found amongst my deceased Mum's paperwork. Its a covering back exercise as well as I'm duty bound. All the debts are at least 8 years old.

I have sent a 'prove it/duty as executor to pay legal debts' etc letter to creditors as I know they will be statute barred.

I am asking for help as I feel I am being drawn in unnecessarily. Basically creditors are coming back to me no record can be found in the name and address supplied and they need account numbers.

Is this a fair request (and I am being paranoid) or am I likely to be entering into a period of cat and mouse whereby they have some sort of agenda. Obviously any debt that is legal will be paid out if the estate but I also have a duty to get this right.

Any advise would be appreciated.

[Kati]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

tagging [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] [MENTION=51026]Ula[/MENTION] [MENTION=85500]Peridot[/MENTION] xx

[Diana M]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

You've raised a good point.

As executor you have effectively stepped into the shoes of your late Mum. If any of these debts are likely to be statute barred then it would be a pity to pay them from the estate.

I think you're also quite rightly wondering whether your approach to a creditor could be seen as acknowledging a debt which may be days/weeks/months away from SB.

In fact if any of the debts are unenforceable in court then the question has to be why should you pay those either?

Did your mother keep good records and files of all of these accounts so you can see when they were opened, last paid, defaulted (if appropriate) etc?

Creditor's have become used to being paid by executors without question.

Did your mother have PPI on any of these accounts?

Di

[rgnsd]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

Thank you so much for the help and for tagging people who could help.

I have paperwork for 40 something debt collection agencies. My mum was an alcoholic who didn't open any post in the last 10 years. We have caught a lot before death and had her pay important things but so many of these are unsecured small debts running anywhere from 8-15 years old.

My letter talks about statute barred, section 27 and OFT guidelines about DCA practice. I'm asking for any original paperwork should payment from the estate be legally enforceable but as yet there's no paperwork arriving just further requests for previous addresses, DOB, account numbers or a copy of the letter I have because they can't retrieve any such account in her name and address. She's lived there for 40 years.

What I can say is that there has been no contact from any of them in the past 6 years according to the paperwork I have found and opened. That leads me firmly down the Statute Barred road and into unfair practice in order to now chase it after death etc (excuse me a novice here, just learning myself)

Basically what I want is paperwork either way. Without that paperwork I can't pay anything because I'm not only acting for myself as beneficiary but my sister and it's only fair to her that I do this right too.

I notice a lot of accounts with PPI yes.

[des8]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

A word of warning (and apologies if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs!)

Don't pay any of the creditors unless you are sure the estate is solvent. If you pay some creditors, use up all the estate and then further creditors appear you may have problems.
Have you posted a sec 27 notice? (you do mention it!)

[Diana M]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

I notice a lot of accounts with PPI .

As Executor you are in a position to process any PPI reclaims for mis-selling if/where appropriate. The refunds will go into the estate

Di

[rgnsd]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

Des8 thank you, not sucking eggs I need all the help I can get. I will in the next few hours post the letter I sent to the DCAs.

Di if I try to get PPI back will I be acknowledging any debt?

This is a minefield for me really but I hope you can appreciate that a solicitor at this stage would cost us an awful lot of money. I really do appreciate the help you are giving me everyone, if anything it's just nice to have a bit of support.

[rgnsd]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

I should have asked for help before I sent the letters but here goes. I took some snippets from here and elsewhere on the web.

Deceased name and address

To Whom It May Concern

In the case of Mrs X (Deceased)

I write in respect of the above named person, residing at the above right address, who died on X and of whose estate I am one of the appointed executors.

It has come to my attention that your company has sent correspondence to Mrs X last place of residence, containing various demands and threats in respect of alleged debts for which no proof has been provided. It has also come to my attention that there is a marked absence of communication in the last six years. As an executor of Mrs X estate, I have a duty to ensure that only lawful debts are paid from the estate while ensuring any claims on the estate are proven and preventing any fraudulent claims being made.

Of the correspondence addressed to Mrs X from your company I can find no conclusive evidence or proof that the estate is liable for any alleged debt because it is statute barred.
I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".

I would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

The last correspondence/payment/acknowledgement of this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from Mrs X in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against the executors or the beneficiaries of X estate to recover the alleged amount claimed.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970".

Within the next 14 calendar days of your receipt of this letter I shall expect your company to provide me with conclusive evidence and proof that the estate is liable for any alleged debt. I shall also expect you to notify the Original Creditor of this and for them to produce all original documents to prove any alleged debt.

For obvious reasons, I can only accept original documents and any documents tendered which are, or which I suspect to be forgeries or fraudulent in any material respect, will be referred to the Financial Conduct Authority for investigation and necessary action.

Any correspondence should be addressed to Mrs X property at the top right of this letter, for collection by the executors of the estate.

Yours faithfully

Executor for the estate of the Late Mrs X

[Diana M]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

A quick question if I may.

I note you say in that letter that your are "one of the appointed executors".

Who is the other executor and are you like-minded?

Di

[charitynjw]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

The OFT ceased to exist a couple of years ago.
The current guidance re SB is given by the FCA in CONC 7.15
https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/7/15.html

[rgnsd]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

The other is my sister Di. She is taking a back seat but I keep her in the loop every step of the way. I don't do anything without her and her husbands say so. We are both executors and beneficiaries.

We are close, yes.

Thank you charity. Very much appreciated.

[rgnsd]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

Des8 you asked had I posted a section 27 notice. Not yet but I am intending to post in The London Gazette and local press in the coming weeks.

[Diana M]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

The other is my sister Di. She is taking a back seat but I keep her in the loop every step of the way. I don't do anything without her and her husbands say so. We are both executors and beneficiaries.

We are close, yes.

That's good to hear

When my Mum died my Big Bossy Brother took control of everything and it all went horribly wrong (thousands of pounds paid out that shouldn't have been paid out).

Sometimes 'family' baggage can get in the way. I haven't spoken to my sister since either!

Anyway this about you not me, but it's good to know your family dynamics before making any suggestion as to the possible way forward so you can rule out any resistance (hopefully)

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

The OFT ceased to exist a couple of years ago.
The current guidance re SB is given by the FCA in CONC 7.15
https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/7/15.html

I agree that the reference to the OFT in the OP's letter was maybe a bit "retro" but possibly no lasting damage has been done to the winding up of the estate in the grand schemes of things

Di

[rgnsd]

Re: Old creditor wants more info

Could I please ask you to have a look at the second letter I am about to send to DCAs for debts which I suspect are statute barred?

I sent the above letter and annoyed that they are all seeking reference numbers. My Mum has been married and lived in her house for 40 years so if they can't find anything in her name and address am I right to assume that there is nothing? Surely, given on what I have read of DCA tactics, giving a name and address is like handing something to them on plate?

I am refusing to play their game and giving them one last chance to provide paperwork for wrapping up the estate.

Please comment if you will. I would very much appreciate any feedback. Thank you.

To Whom It May Concern

In the case of Mrs X (Deceased)

I write in respect of the above named person, residing at the above right address, who died on X and of whose estate I am one of the appointed executors.

Thank you for your response to the letter I sent to you tracked recorded delivery. I understand from your correspondence that you cannot find any details of the deceased named and addressed as above. Given that X has been named X and has lived at the above address for 40 years, I shall now exclude this company as I wrap up the estate.

Any correspondence should be addressed to Mrs X property without delay at the top right of this letter, for collection by the executors of the estate.

Yours faithfully
Executor for the estateof the Late Mrs X