Probate or not to Probate?

[ancientperson]

I have been told...

To deal with your father’s assets does not require a grant of probate as they are chattels and can be transferred informally. The effect of not proving the will is that your Father would be deemed to then have died intestate ie without a will. So my proposal is that we all agree informally , in writing if necessary , to honour your Father’s wishes without taking out a grant of probate.

Is this really true? - it was written to me by the joint executor of my Father's will, who is a solicitor!
Thank you
Chris

[judgemental24]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

All probate has to be registered with the probate office

Any assetts have to be made accountable and signed off by a solicitor before a probate aplication is made

HMRC will have something to say over anything different as most financial institutions such as banks etc will require a copy of the probate certificate first

The most you probably will get is the bank to release funds to pay the funeral director direct without probate

[Kati]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/overview

When someone dies, you’ll need to get the legal right to deal with their property, money and possessions (their ‘estate’).

England and Wales

You may be able to apply for a ‘grant of representation’ - known as ‘probate’.
You can apply yourself or use a solicitor or another person licensed to provide probate services.

Most cases follow the same basic process.

• Check if there’s a will - this normally states who sorts out the estate. If there’s no will the next of kin can apply.
• Apply to get a ‘grant of representation’ - this gives you the legal right to access things like the person’s bank account.
• Pay any Inheritance Tax that’s due.
• Collect the estate’s assets, eg money from the sale of the person’s property.
• Pay any debts, eg unpaid utilities bills.
• Distribute the estate - this means giving any property, money or possessions to the people entitled to it (‘beneficiaries’).

A grant of representation can sometimes be known as a ‘grant of probate’, ‘letters of administration’ or ‘letters of administration with a will’.

When a grant of representation may not be needed
You don’t normally need a grant if the estate either:

• passes to the surviving spouse/civil partner because it was held in joint names, eg a savings account
• doesn’t include land, property or shares

You should contact the organisation holding the money, eg the bank or building society. They may ask for proof of death, eg the death certificate after the death has been registered.

[ancientperson]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

My Father's estate just contains about £2000 and some chattels he wanted left to specific people.
I did not think we had to get a grant of probate or register/prove it in order for his wishes to be honoured.
The banks have already released his money and HMRC is happy.
So is the original statement true or false?
Thank you

[enaid]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

Normally, you need a grant of representation or confirmation if the value of the deceased’s estate (after paying the funeral account) is over £5,000.
These days, banks and building societies impose their own discretionary limit upon when they need a grant of probate or confirmation.
For example, if the deceased only left a nominal sum of cash, say £1,000, personal items having a high market value and a very expensive car, there is no need for you to apply for a grant of probate or confirmation because you, as the executor or administrator, need no formal proof of your authority to gather in and distribute these assets.
But, even if you don't need a grant of probate, it may be better for you to obtain one in any event where the assets are high in value, to protect you and the executors and ensure that you are distributing the estate correctly.
On the other hand, if the deceased had a bank account and shares with a net value of over £15,000, or if the deceased’s home needs to be sold or transferred to a beneficiary, a grant will be necessary so you, as executor, can obtain formal authority to gather in and deal with these assets.

[Kati]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

[MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION]?? any ideas :noidea:

[judgemental24]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

I myself have handled two probates this year as Executor

But in each case property and a will was involved

The probate office will charge you also £215.00

But to answer your question if the estate only consists of £2000 max and no property or spouse then i would say yes

[ancientperson]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

Thank you all for your thoughts, but I'm still confused about the statement
"The effect of not proving the will is that your Father would be deemed to then have died intestate ie without a will."
Is that true or false?

[judgemental24]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

Proving a will is sealing it with the probate office

Before you submit anything to the probate office you have to swear the documents are signed in the prescence of a solitor as true and correct. (attestation)

That includes the will by way of a statement of truth. .The solicitor charged me £5.00

Without a will you are intestate

[michael]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

The probate office will charge you also £215.00

the application fee of £215 - a cheque made payable to HM Courts and Tribunals Service (there’s no fee if the estate is under £5,000)

https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inh...representation

[des8]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

For such a small estate probate is not required, unless there is real estate or stocks/ shares involved.
The quote in Post 1 is correct.
Why spend the estate unnecessarily?

[stevemLS]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

The replies have been around whether a Grant of Probate is required and I agree it is not.

I don't, however, think you can disregard the content of the Will. I am struggling for an authority on that but looking at the 1925 Act, Administrators have the same rights and liabilities as Executors (s21). You would be assuming the role of Administrator despite not being appointed by the court. The duties are defined as the duties of Personal Representatives, there is no distinction between Executors and Administrators.

In your position, in any event, I would feel under a moral obligation to do as my father wished me to do in his, presumably valid, Will.

I am currently dealing with the estate of my Aunt who had solicitors draw up a Will but then did not execute it, twice 15 years apart, my family have agreed that I will, as Administrator, approach the solicitors that did the second draft and her estate will be distributed according to the wishes she expressed there.

[des8]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

Agree Steve,and there was no suggestion that the wishes of the testator as expressed in the will should be ignored, but that the joint executors proceed to implement it.

[stevemLS]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

Agree Steve,and there was no suggestion that the wishes of the testator as expressed in the will should be ignored, but that the joint executors proceed to implement it.

No, I just wanted to make it clear that they couldn't just get together and decide what to do. The OP makes it clear that s/he intends to honour their father's wishes and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

[roberttpatt]

Re: Probate or not to Probate?

Hi

You must initiate the probate process with the local probate court. Among other duties, you will be responsible for distributing property according to your father's will, if he left one. In the absence of a valid will, his property will be distributed in accordance with state intestate law.
You must consult the probate attorney as he is the expert in dealing with all these matters.