Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

[Unregistered]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

Hi its Sam yes I have quoted them the law in my past letters they take no notice I am having to take action now

[Openlaw15]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

Hi its sam after making a number of phone calls to probate court I have been told the form required is a summons form which I have been sent a copy of from the probate Court and affidavit from myself summons form some of it I can understand how to fill it but there's a part where I would like help with. . Summons form. .. in the High Court of Justice principal Registry of family division. . ( probate). . In the estate of. (deceased). .of( last known address). ... who died on( date of death). .. between. Applicant. .and. respondent .let. attend before. . The district judge sitting in court at the principle registry of the family division. Then the address or depending on what part of country or in. .. .am/pm. The day. Of. 2016. . On the hearing on an application. . On the part of. ..for. .. dated. The. Day of. 2016. .. ... This is what I have been told I need to fill can you help me filling it in please

Have you made a start on the form yet Sam? Copy and paste its wording here if you want

[Ferret25f]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

I have a similar problem as Sam but he states his has gone to probate, I would like to get interim accounts as it has been 2 years since my fathers death and my sister (who also had unregistered enduring poa) is the executor and despite her taking on a solicitor to deal with the will there has been no progress and I have been told nothing even though I am a joint equal beneficiary. I believe my sister is staling as she has already sold my dads house and emptied his bank accounts while he was alive and says it was a gift! I have phoned about 4 or 5 "Probate courts" and they say it's nothing to do with them until it's gone to probate ! can anyone help?

[Ferret25f]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

I am attempting this as well, which bit below am I meant to quote before taking action and has anyone here successfully obtained interim accounts (before grant of probate)
And where did they get forms and help filling them ?
I have had no luck with probate courts they just say get legal help and they only deal with cases after probate granted!
#
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/29/section/35


: Lord Wrenbury in O ’Rourke v Darbishire [1920] AC 581 at paragraph 626; also the Privy Counsel in Schmidt v Rosewood Trust Ltd [2003] UKPC 26; [2003] 2 AC 709; and in Breakspear v Ackland [2008] EWHC 220 (Chancery); [2009] Ch 32.

To suggest that the executors are not accountable to the beneficiaries to provide documents or financial statements of the estate is absurd: Lord Wrenbury in O' Rourke [1920].

[Guest]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

Hi and welcome
The executor only has to provide detailed accounts to residuary beneficiaries when estate is finally settled.

If you think about an executors duties you will realise that it is unreasonable to expect running accounts and estimates of residual benefits.
And in any case, if these accounts were provided the expense would deplete the amount available to distribute, and the executors first duty is to preserve the assets, not spend them on his expenses.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tsemmanual/tsem6054.htm

For executors a useful post, generally it's not someting that most of us do on a regular basis.

[Ferret25f]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

sorry you lost me on that one! all the above messages say you can get intrim accounts via court after giving good reason !

[des8]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

sorry you lost me on that one! all the above messages say you can get intrim accounts via court after giving good reason !

Have you read the earlier posts on this thread, especially 4,5 &,6?

[Ferret25f]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

Number 6 says :

According to this UK website: http://cohencramer.co.uk/inheritance...utor-disputes/

"The executors do not have a duty to keep beneficiaries informed about the administration of the estate however it is good practice to. They do however have a duty to provide a beneficiary with estate accounts when requested."

When I challenged Cohen Cramer for the source of the above statement, they pointed me to the Myddleton & Rushout 1797 case which the Law Society Library helped me locate. Therefore I was not surprised at all when the Judge quoted this same case.

It does seem to me though that an Executor does have a duty to provide the accounts when requested and if they don't then you can go to Court to ask for them to be forced to give them to you. There was no cost for issuing the summons which the Probate Office helped with by providing a template and just a few pounds for swearing an affidavit. Also no court costs as I represented myself and I have to say that I found the court staff and the Judge very helpful to me as I was a lay person and the court was not as intimidating as I expected it might. Costs for the other side were not granted against me but have been left till the end of the case in the event that we go back to court if he doesn't now comply with the order.

thats exactly what I am trying to do, Ipswich Probate Court know what I want to do and have sent me forms but I need them from another area and that area dosn't seem to know so have emailed them and hope that the person dealing can help, or its back to Ipswich to see if they can contact the other area and enlighten them

[des8]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested


The duties of the personal representative (‘PR’) of a deceased’s estate are set out in s25 Administration of Estates Act 1925(as amended by s9 Administration of Estates Act 1971):“The personal representative of a deceased person shall be under a duty to collect and get in the real andpersonal estate of the deceased and administer it according to law; when required to do so by the court, exhibit onoath in the court a full inventory of the estate and when so required render an account of the administration of theestate to the court; [and] when required to do so by the High Court, deliver up the grant of probate oradministration to that court.”

The original question was about the duty of the executor to render an account when asked by a beneficiary, to which the response was "there is no such duty"
The duty arises following suit and court order.

have you searched here for the form you require ;https://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov..../FormFinder.do

[WillPro]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

Hi
we are having similar difficulties with an executor who considers the estate wound up but I believe some of the estate residual funds have been inadvertently subsumed into the estate of another executor who has since passed away, complicating matters. I believe the residual funds were held in the executors named account and not an executors bank account.
i have been made a personal representative now but the other executor will not meet up with me to discuss matters. I am now thinking of applying to the court to ask the other personal rep to provide the accounts. I have a copy of the form
can you tell me how much information you have to give as to why you are taking this course of action? Do you have to quote the relevant laws?
do you have to attend court or are the accounts sent to you by the court?
any guidance you can give would be very much appreciated.
thanks

[Guest]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

Hi and welcome
The executor only has to provide detailed accounts to residuary beneficiaries when estate is finally settled.

If you think about an executors duties you will realise that it is unreasonable to expect running accounts and estimates of residual benefits.
And in any case, if these accounts were provided the expense would deplete the amount available to distribute, and the executors first duty is to preserve the assets, not spend them on his expenses.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tsemmanual/tsem6054.htm

The reply does make sense, it may not be what requester wanted.

[Guest]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

The question was "do EXECUTORS have to provide running accounts?"
Your response refers to "TRUSTEES"

My (mis?)understanding has always been:

Executor : A person appointed by a Testator to carry out theterms of his or her Will.
During the administration period a beneficiary hasno rights in the deceased’s estate. All he has is aright to ensure that the estate is properlyadministered.

Trustee: one who performs the duties and exercises powers provided forin a Trust instrument, as well as general duties and powers prescribed by statute orthe courts.

A will does not automatically make a trustee of the executor

An interesting distinction between Executor & Trustee!

[des8]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

The distinction between a trustee and an executor is more than just interesting, it is quite real.
My post at the time was in response to one from a now inactive member who thought that because he had some sort of law degree he could baffle us all!

Whilst executors and trustees are similar in that both have a duty of care to the beneficiaries, their roles are somewhat different.
Executors gather in and distribute assets in much the same way as liquidators, whilst a trustee is responsible for investing and administering the assets of the trust... more a business manager perhaps?

[Tigi]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

Can someone help me with some advice please? I have read through all the posts due to my circumstances and understand that I do not have to be a residuary beneficiary to force accounts and as a next of kin (daughter) and interested person i.e. my daughter and I have specific legacies of total 10K we could issue a summons for account to be provided to the Court???

Not sure though that this would be the right course of action even if I am correct.

Like others I suspect fraud although now it has been uncovered I am being told I will receive funds eventually.

I was executor of my mother's estate. My brother had been missing ingnoring us all for 25 years until my mother was 75. His return to the family broke up the family largely due to he and my other daughter continually taking money from my mother.

I found out from an old friend that she died in March 2017. My brother neither told me of the illness, death nor funeral hence my daughter and I were unable to attend. I received no contact from my brother at any time but looked out for a will and Probate which was granted to my brother in June. Again no contact. He was now executor and I and my younger daughter had specific and therefore priority bequests.

There is no question of inheritance tax nor property to sell.

I found out she sold her house and has obviously distributed funds to my brother and older daughter as they have been buying houses and cars. Eventually having waited to see whether my fears were being realised I wrote to my brother recorded delivery not disclosing I had seen a will - no reply.

I wrote again whereupon he did reply.

He told me he did not have to provide me with accounts and had done so to my eldest daughter as she is also a residuary beneficiary with him but would not be sending any money to us basically because he did not have to for 6 months.

There was no property left or shares/investments. When I was executor she only had bank accounts and the bank confirm it will take only days to transfer the money to the executor. I wrote back asking for our specific legacies within 7 days which has been ignored.

I pointed out he had sent accounts to my eldest thus the administration was complete, there would have been no debts and I am certain he will have been accessing the money himself and will have provided the funds due to my eldest in Australia.

I am certain he would not have ever told us about our inheritance but he has now had to acknowledge it but is basically withholding just ours. What to do guys? I feel absolutely helpless.

[des8]

Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

Hiand welcome
Sorry to hear of your problems and the passing of your mother.

Executors often do not distribute any legacies until the passing of 6 months after the grant of probate which was obtained on ???
This is because claims can be made against the estate during that period.

Specific legacies and small monetary legacies are often made before the expiry of the 6 months
However you need to remember there is also "the executors year" (which commences the day the deceased passed on).

I doubt it is worth asking the courts to order that he produces an inventory and an account of his dealings with the estate at this point

Tagging [MENTION=85500]Peridot[/MENTION] when she has a moment.