Misuse of estate assets by excessive use of a solicitor

[Dommer3000]

Hello all,

My first post and I'll be honest, I'd really rather not be posting this.

We are about halfway through the will process following the death of my wife's mother. I'm a named beneficiary in the will, as is my wife.

Her brother is the sole executor. He is now not communicating at all with his sister, apart from through a Solicitor. The house was put on the market, a price £30k lower than the asking price was agreed and it is sold subject to contract, all without consulting or informing any of the beneficiaries. In fact, the neighbour was told, but not the beneficiaries.

We are about to go to the house to sort out the remainder of the belongings, and her brother now is insisting on making all the arrangements via the solicitor, and is now instructing a house clearance company to supervise us while we sort the belongings. The reason he is giving is to "protect his position as executor" . We are only allowed to attend the house for 4 hours and cannot stay there, despite the fact we live 200 miles away, and prior to her death, we visited the my wife's mother at the house regularly for 30 years. To add more context, we lived in the house and cared for her mother for the 10 days up to her death, and were by her side when she passed away.

My concern is that my wife's brother (the executor) is now using the estate to fund his animosity to my wife, amassing legal fees by insisting any communication goes through the solicitor rather than face to face with him. Again, more context, we have behaved calmly and properly throughout, no heated arguments etc. All of the remaining arrangements could be sorted by some discussion, but now we are having to pay for a solicitor at £275+ vat per hour for the simplest of questions.

Do we have any options to stop his over-use of the solicitor without having to go to one ourselves? or does he basically have carte blanche to use a solicitor as he wants? It feels as if we are powerless, as the more we correspond with his solicitor for matters that can be resolved by a quick phone call, the more it costs the estate, i.e. our inheritance.

On a related matter, two items of modest value (about £200) have not been accounted for in the list of assets. We suspect he has these. What can we do if he has taken them and not declared them as part of the estate?

thanks for any advice on offer.

[Pezza54]

The following is my advice, others on the forum may take a different view.

If you haven't got a copy of the will you should be able to search for it on the Probate registry..

The executor has a legal responsibility to dispose of assets in accordance with the will and to produce an estate final account which should be signed by the executor and main beneficiaries.

Estate accounts can be complex and your brother-in-law as executor may have decided to employ a solicitor to manage the estate, help dispose of the assets as the will directs and produce a final account. The executor is within his rights to employ a solicitor.

If you are unhappy with the executor's final account you shouldn't sign it and you can query the account with the executor.

[Crazy council]

I agree with what Pezza54 says, Do that ASAP

lso, i have had personal experience with a large will and arguing sibling.

Be very careful of any solicitor involved encouraging you to argue, becuase they get paid big on Wills,

I think its the trustees act that is the guidance for there fiduciary duties ( financial actions ). ( i will check this weekend )

My advice, try find a way to put disagreements on hold and deal with it amicably, try get the other person to consider the costs involved, even if there resistant now, they may change.

Ask for details of costs, especial solicitors costs, just to keep them on there toes.

It looks like maybe, this is the otehr perssons reaction to them considering the price to be low for the sale of the house. To clear that up get three valuations and submit them, and try talk about cost going forward, see what can be saved

You can prob save close to 10K by dealing with the estate amicably

[Pezza54]

If your B.I.L.employed the solicitor to obtain probate and administer the estate, it is usual for the solicitor to charge his fee based on a fixed percentage (3-5%) of the value of the estate. If this is the case, you should not worry about contacting the solicitor (by phone or in writing) as the solicitor's response should be included in the fee.
The executor, or possibly the solicitor administering the estate, has a duty to keep the main beneficiaries up to date with progress.

[Dip]

agree with what Pezza54 says, Do that ASAP

lso, i have had personal experience with a large will and arguing sibling.

Be very careful of any solicitor involved encouraging you to argue, becuase they get paid big on Wills,

I think its the trustees act that is the guidance for there fiduciary duties ( financial actions ). ( i will check this weekend )

My advice, try find a way to put disagreements on hold and deal with it amicably, try get the other person to consider the costs involved, even if there resistant now, they may change.

Ask for details of costs, especial solicitors costs, just to keep them on there toes.

It looks like maybe, this is the otehr perssons reaction to them considering the price to be low for the sale of the house. To clear that up get three valuations and submit them, and try talk about cost going forward, see what can be saved

You can prob save close to 10K by dealing with the estate amicably


Hi, problem is @CrazyCouncil, the property as been sold subject to contract. Surely it is too late to re-submit 3 valuations for a property that is 200 miles away from where Dommer3000 lives? Also, what condition was said property in? It may not be worth the extra figure mentioned - £30k. There could well be legal implications at this stage for pulling out/delaying sale? I’m sure others will know on here.

A word of warning, the Solicitor may not be handling the Estate though, BIL may be engaging this Solicitor purely to act as the go-between for him and his sister but expects the Estate to pay for these legal costs out of the Estate. Again, I would write and ask the BIL in what capacity has this Solicitor been engaged?

yes, it’s very sad when ‘items’ go missing and again I would ask the BIL but that’s all you can do.

Let us know how you get on with it all.

[Dommer3000]

agree with what Pezza54 says, Do that ASAP

lso, i have had personal experience with a large will and arguing sibling.

Be very careful of any solicitor involved encouraging you to argue, becuase they get paid big on Wills,

I think its the trustees act that is the guidance for there fiduciary duties ( financial actions ). ( i will check this weekend )

My advice, try find a way to put disagreements on hold and deal with it amicably, try get the other person to consider the costs involved, even if there resistant now, they may change.

Ask for details of costs, especial solicitors costs, just to keep them on there toes.

It looks like maybe, this is the otehr perssons reaction to them considering the price to be low for the sale of the house. To clear that up get three valuations and submit them, and try talk about cost going forward, see what can be saved

You can prob save close to 10K by dealing with the estate amicably


Hi, problem is @CrazyCouncil, the property as been sold subject to contract. Surely it is too late to re-submit 3 valuations for a property that is 200 miles away from where Dommer3000 lives? Also, what condition was said property in? It may not be worth the extra figure mentioned - £30k. There could well be legal implications at this stage for pulling out/delaying sale? I’m sure others will know on here.

A word of warning, the Solicitor may not be handling the Estate though, BIL may be engaging this Solicitor purely to act as the go-between for him and his sister but expects the Estate to pay for these legal costs out of the Estate. Again, I would write and ask the BIL in what capacity has this Solicitor been engaged?

yes, it’s very sad when ‘items’ go missing and again I would ask the BIL but that’s all you can do.

Let us know how you get on with it all.

Thanks for all the advice, folks.

I would like to sort this amicably, but BIL is not talking to us at all, and is not passing on any information regarding the estate, other than through the solicitor, which seems an unnecessary expense.

AFAIK, BIL is dealing with the estate, not the Solicitor, and them impression I get is that the Solicitor is the go-between at the estates expense to avoid BIL having to speak to any of the beneficiaries. If this is the case, what can I do?

All correspondence with BIL has to be through the Solicitor - no reason given why, other than a generic "protect his position as executor" so I feel as if it's in the Solicitor's interests to remain involved. But I'm guessing to challenge this would involve us using a solicitor, and bearing in mind the relatively small amounts involved, financially, it doesn't make sense.

However, it does leave us feeling completely helpless and at the mercy of the whims of a rather spiteful and bitter executor.

[Pezza54]

If that is the case you should write to the solicitor as main beneficiaries to find out the current position with administration of the estate. You should also state that you expect to receive an estate final account for approval and signature

[Dommer3000]

Thanks for all the advice, folks.

I would like to sort this amicably, but BIL is not talking to us at all, and is not passing on any information regarding the estate, other than through the solicitor, which seems an unnecessary expense.

AFAIK, BIL is dealing with the estate, not the Solicitor, and them impression I get is that the Solicitor is the go-between at the estates expense to avoid BIL having to speak to any of the beneficiaries. If this is the case, what can I do?

All correspondence with BIL has to be through the Solicitor - no reason given why, other than a generic "protect his position as executor" so I feel as if it's in the Solicitor's interests to remain involved. But I'm guessing to challenge this would involve us using a solicitor, and bearing in mind the relatively small amounts involved, financially, it doesn't make sense.

However, it does leave us feeling completely helpless and at the mercy of the whims of a rather spiteful and bitter executor.

On another, more minor, but equally annoying matter, he is also putting a price on every item in the house, so we have to "buy" anything we want from the estate, that money goes into the estate and is shared out to the beneficiaries. Nothing is worth more than £200. Whilst I understand this is sometimes done, my experience from everyone I know is that the family decide what they want and don't want and agree who has what - no money is involved.

Many of the items aren't things we would want other than for the sentimental value, so we don't really want to pay £80 for an old silver box, but at the same time, we want to keep it in the family. None of the other beneficiaries want to use the "pay into the estate for every item" model but he refuses to listen to us. Do we have any rights to challenge this?

[Pezza54]

The method of selling items in the estate to beneficiaries works for valuable items that could be sold privately or auctioned. If a few beneficiaries chose and got given the expensive items then other beneficiaries would lose out. Only those on a % of the estate or the residue would lose out.
Pricing every item in the house seems over the top.. If nobody wants the items at the price he has set is he going to sell them on a make an offer basis or give them to charity? His estate final account is going to have to list every item that is sold and for how much.

Not a lot you can do about his solicitor. Just check the fees in the final account and query them if they appear excessive.

[des8]

If the beneficiaries are in agreement the will could be varied to allow for the items to be passed without charge.
The executor would also have to agree, but if the agreement was drawn up by a solicitor might he not be persuaded as he would remain "protected"?

[Dip]

There certainly are things you can challenge with the (rather spiteful) Executor, (via legal channels if it was me as 1 Solicitors letter MAY let this Executor realise that you mean business without the need to get ‘personally’ involved with him).

1. Already, he has failed in his ‘duties’ as an Executor by not informing you and your wife (as beneficiaries) that he sold the property.

2. If & I say ‘IF’ you can prove that he has sold the property for less than its market value (as you’ve previously stated he has), then you can sue him for the difference. Pretty serious for him, if this is the case.

3. If he’s using this Solicitor purely as a go-between for him & his sister and whom has involvement in the Estate itself, this is personal to him then he is liable for these costs, NOT the Estate.

I would certainly take legal advice and see what prevails.

[Dip]

I should say point 3 - ‘ No involvement’

[Dommer3000]

There certainly are things you can challenge with the (rather spiteful) Executor, (via legal channels if it was me as 1 Solicitors letter MAY let this Executor realise that you mean business without the need to get ‘personally’ involved with him).

1. Already, he has failed in his ‘duties’ as an Executor by not informing you and your wife (as beneficiaries) that he sold the property.

2. If & I say ‘IF’ you can prove that he has sold the property for less than its market value (as you’ve previously stated he has), then you can sue him for the difference. Pretty serious for him, if this is the case.

3. If he’s using this Solicitor purely as a go-between for him & his sister and whom has involvement in the Estate itself, this is personal to him then he is liable for these costs, NOT the Estate.

I would certainly take legal advice and see what prevails.

Latest update - we have been given a 4 hour appointment, accompanied by an "independent third party" who will document any requested items, which will then be valued. The solicitor has stated that my wife will have to attend the appointment alone, only her 2 brothers and the "independent third party" (who are a house clearance company, appointed by, and with a long association with the Solicitor) are permitted to attend.

I'm concerned for her safety - especially from bullying, coersion, gaslighting. Both the brothers can be considered as hostile to my wife.

Do I have the right to accompany her as a chaperone? As I understand it, they can't force someone to do something alone if this gives them concerns about their safety.

[Dip]

Firstly, it’s quite shocking that the Executor is taking a rather cold and hostile approach with his handling of The Estate. However, the question is, does your wife really want to go to this ‘appointment’? Is it all really worth cow-towing to these imposed conditions for a few sentimental items? If the answer is yes, then there is nothing that can stop you taking your wife to the appointment. However, I am not sure the legalities of you ‘chaperoning’ her - you could well decide to go, but again, you’re entering an already ‘hostile’ situation which I am sure both of you do not want. I hope that you can get a more favourable response from someone with more knowledge about such matters on here.