Intestate but joint tenancy…does the tenancy count toward the allowance?

[K. Serah]

Good morning

A puzzle (well at least for me!)
Here’s a scenario:-

Man A owns a property in joint tenancy spouse, and another rental property in joint tenancy with spouse

The main residential property is worth £500k and the rental one £200k

There are also investments and cash worth £400k

There are two adult children from a previous marriage.

Am I correct in thinking the properties automatically go to the spouse, together with 270 of the £400k and 1/2 of the remaining 130k, with the other half of the remaining 130k going to the adult children?

Or does the value of the properties count toward the £270?
(or none of the above?)

Thanks

[dslippy]

Man A needs advice. In a joint tenancy each JT owns the entire property, and on JT1's death, JT1's interest simply evanesces immediately before the death. The is nothing which passes to JT2. JT2 already owned all the property, and now merely has nobody else in the same situation.
I have lost track of the figures used for the calculations for the rest, but understand that the houses have no part in thosse calculations since nothing passes through the estate.

[K. Serah]

Man A does indeed! Thanks D slippy.
the only assets outside the two joint tenancies are 400k. So 270 to spouse and 130 remaining to be split between spouse and adult children i believe then.
Here is an extra slippy question.
If someone contested a will, could the courts put the spouse in a worse position than if they had died intestate?
ie in the above example, could all the assets go the adult children?
If so and all assets were transferred to spouse before death (let say 5 years before) could a claim of any sort be made then?

[dslippy]

When an application is made (Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975), the court is capable of making any order as required by the circumstances. Family members can also challenge the provisions under an intestacy. Making a will does not change the principle, though the intestacy rules may be taken into account when judging whether provision in a will is reasonable. Differemt family members may have differemt claims iin nature. There is a whole book's worth of material about how a court does this.
But . .
A court could take account of a share in a property effectively handed to the surving spouse by survivorship - adding it back in to the overall calculation.
The claims for adult children are really quite limited - they have to show a dependency. It is possibly correct to say that the courts have accepted as dependency situations which might not otherwise suggest dependency.

[K. Serah]

Blimey Dslippy, thats interesting. So in effect the joint tenancy arrangement, which as you say means each person owns 100 per cent…potentially could be bought back into calculations then? Presumably at 50 pcent. I am worried that the courts may accept dependency as non dependency too! This is really worrying. I want my spouse to inherit the whole of my estate…and at least keep their half of the properties, however I have two adult children who I fear are going to cause trouble, regardless of wills or anything. I am worried, and there doesnt seem to be any guarantee’s. Can they even go for my spouses own savings accumulated from their work over the years? Maybe i should divorce to secure their future before i go!

[K. Serah]

Oops.

[dslippy]

They have to be able to show some dependency.
Given the amounts involved, direct advice may well be worth it.

[atticus]

well, K. Serah, whatever will be will be. You would do well to consult a solicitor with whom you can discuss your position, possible claims on your estate, and other related matters.

[K. Serah]

Thankyou Dslippy. I will take some advice as you suggest. Atticus…nice play on words, .
Thanks for all your help.
really is kind.