Different things left to different people / trusts

[RnK136]

Mum's Will leaves her half of the house (as tenants in common) to myself and my Brother in trust, with my surviving Dad holding a beneficial interest.

A codicil leaves one ISA directly to myself and my Brother, no mention of trust.

Everything else is said to be "The Trust Fund" and is left to Dad in trust. There is another ISA which isn't mentioned separately and therefore comes under this.

I learn I am to register the property trust with HMRC if still the same situation in 2 years?

What about the ISA going to Dad? Can he receive the funds from that now? Why does it says The Trust Fund held in trust for him? Held why, and for how long?

NB: all 3 of us are trustees and executors, but I am handling everything as my Dad's cognitive health is poor and my Brother agreed I would primarily handle things.

[Sam101]

In this situation, the codicil leaving one of her ISA's to you and your brother can be encashed and gifted to you both. The other ISA can be cashed and used as part of the Trust for your Dads needs and managed by the Trustees. This is done by simply encashing the ISA and setting up an investment, (bank or building society in the Trust name).

Regarding the half house in Trust, the normal process once Probate has been granted or the estate settled, is to change the ownership of the house in the Land Registry (not HMRC) to your Dad and the Trust ( Trust of Mrs xxxx xxxx) ) so it shows that Dad still has his part and the Trust owns the other part. The Will allows him to remain in the property with a lifetime interest. If it was necessary at a later date to maybe move to a smaller house, then all of the property value can be use and any remainder would form part of the Trust until your Dad passes.

If not done already, make sure your Dad gives Power of Attorney to the other members of the family so that if he become unable to manage his affairs, they can take over for him.

The three of you are appointed as Executors and Trustees and would jointly manage matters of the Trust, but the Trust could ba managed by less if the others agree.

Managing the Probate is not too difficult and there are lots of guidance notes on GOV sites. Ask more here if you need to

[atticus]

Welcome to the forum.

I would expect your mother's Will to say more about the terms of the trust for your father, and therefore to provide the answers to your questions about that (held why and for how long).

What exactly is your question when you say "I learn I am to register the property trust with HMRC if still the same situation in 2 years?"

[Sam101]

RNK136
I see you have asked the same question on another the MSE Forum and received a number of replies. What is it that you are still unsure about?

[RnK136]

RNK136
I see you have asked the same question on another the MSE Forum and received a number of replies. What is it that you are still unsure about?

Hi Sam,

Yes - I did post on MSE, but the answers seem to get skewed away discussing the property, when my real question was about the ISA for my Dad.

I saw your replies though, which do help - thank you

[RnK136]

Welcome to the forum.

I would expect your mother's Will to say more about the terms of the trust for your father, and therefore to provide the answers to your questions about that (held why and for how long).

What exactly is your question when you say "I learn I am to register the property trust with HMRC if still the same situation in 2 years?"

Just really to ask if I understand HMRC TRSM23020 - Types of trust that need to be registered: contents: excluded express trusts: contents: estates and trusts created on death correctly.

Mum's Will does not state terms of trust for my Dad, no - except that if he doesn't live longer than 1 month after, then the trust passes to me and my Brother instead.

[RnK136]

In this situation, the codicil leaving one of her ISA's to you and your brother can be encashed and gifted to you both. The other ISA can be cashed and used as part of the Trust for your Dads needs and managed by the Trustees. This is done by simply encashing the ISA and setting up an investment, (bank or building society in the Trust name).

Regarding the half house in Trust, the normal process once Probate has been granted or the estate settled, is to change the ownership of the house in the Land Registry (not HMRC) to your Dad and the Trust ( Trust of Mrs xxxx xxxx) ) so it shows that Dad still has his part and the Trust owns the other part. The Will allows him to remain in the property with a lifetime interest. If it was necessary at a later date to maybe move to a smaller house, then all of the property value can be use and any remainder would form part of the Trust until your Dad passes.

If not done already, make sure your Dad gives Power of Attorney to the other members of the family so that if he become unable to manage his affairs, they can take over for him.

The three of you are appointed as Executors and Trustees and would jointly manage matters of the Trust, but the Trust could ba managed by less if the others agree.

Managing the Probate is not too difficult and there are lots of guidance notes on GOV sites. Ask more here if you need to

So I have to set up a new account just to put this ISA in and then give it to my Dad? Why can we not just encash to directly to an account my Dad already has?

Sadly, Dad doesn't understand POA, or its importance, and would never agree to it.

[Sam101]

You have already said that there is another ISA that is part of the Trust. I believe that is correct. In which h case, that ISA cannot be cashed and given to your dad as the Will says otherwise.
The Trust is for his benefit during his lifetime. The trustees set up an account with that isa encashment in it and can then distribute it as required to your dad. When he dies anything of that ISA remaining comes to you and your brother.

If you want this done correctly, then this is the way to do it.

[RnK136]

Mum's Will leaves her half of the house (as tenants in common) to myself and my Brother in trust, with my surviving Dad holding a beneficial interest.

A codicil leaves one ISA directly to myself and my Brother, no mention of trust.

Everything else is said to be "The Trust Fund" and is left to Dad in trust. There is another ISA which isn't mentioned separately and therefore comes under this.

I learn I am to register the property trust with HMRC if still the same situation in 2 years?

What about the ISA going to Dad? Can he receive the funds from that now? Why does it says The Trust Fund held in trust for him? Held why, and for how long?

NB: all 3 of us are trustees and executors, but I am handling everything as my Dad's cognitive health is poor and my Brother agreed I would primarily handle things.

Thank you!

[Sam101]

So I have to set up a new account just to put this ISA in and then give it to my Dad? Why can we not just encash to directly to an account my Dad already has?

Sadly, Dad doesn't understand POA, or its importance, and would never agree to it.

This is important, try and explain to him that if he gets to the point when he is unable to manage and has not completed a Power of Attorney, then it may be that others are appointed to administer his affairs. Far better to keep it in the family so that if this does happen, then he knows that his children will do the best for him.

As we all get older, we do not like to admit that we will ever be in a position to not know how to deal with things, but as long as he feels that he can trust his family, then he should do this as soon as possible. All sorts of things can happen. so even you should consider this. My wife and I have had this in place for many years and my family know about it. It really does make sense.

[RnK136]

This is important, try and explain to him that if he gets to the point when he is unable to manage and has not completed a Power of Attorney, then it may be that others are appointed to administer his affairs. Far better to keep it in the family so that if this does happen, then he knows that his children will do the best for him.

As we all get older, we do not like to admit that we will ever be in a position to not know how to deal with things, but as long as he feels that he can trust his family, then he should do this as soon as possible. All sorts of things can happen. so even you should consider this. My wife and I have had this in place for many years and my family know about it. It really does make sense.

Unfortunately, we are beyond the point of getting him to understand. He is 85 and cognitive ability is diminishing. He doesn't trust anyone, not even his own children.

I've been managing the house/bills/finances for the last 3 years after Mum's health deteriorated and she could no longer do it. But he has already several times accused me of taking money out of their bank account, etc.

We had a POA in place for Mum for the last few years of her life. She understood and agreed to it.

So I do fully agree with you, but in the case of Dad it is a complete dead end I'm afraid.

[Sam101]

So sorry to hear about the problems. Hope it gets a little easier before too long. Good luck
Sam