Personal effects removed/destroyed prior to probate - advice needed

[Michl]

Hello

I am currently experiencing a very difficult situation regarding my late mothers estate, on several facets. Two of which are minor in financial value, but high in sentimental value.

1. A sibling expressed an interest in placing items in my late mothers coffin prior to cremation. My other sibling and I asked what the items would be, before agreeing to this. We were told it would be a personal, hand written letter, and a photograph of my late mothers dogs. We agreed to this in principle, on the basis that it was only these items, and if any other items were to be placed in the coffin, we were to be consulted first. The sibling has told us (post funeral) that she also placed one of my late mothers personal, irreplaceable possessions of significant sentimental value in the coffin (this conversation was witnessed by two police officers). Upon enquiring with the funeral director, they deny this item was placed in the coffin, thereby insinuating that my sibling was lying. Can anyone express any general advice regarding this point, and does anyone know if a funeral director keeps a log of items placed in the deceased coffin?

2. The same sibling has removed my late mothers ring, which belonged to her mother and grandmother, so again, an item of great sentimental value. No discussion has been made regarding distribution of personal effects (despite repeated attempts by me), I end up being attacked by said sibling when I try to raise the issue. It is my feeling that my sibling has 'stolen' this item, as no agreement regarding distribution of items has been entered into, and probate has not commenced (due to obstruction from said sibling). Upon questioning my sibling in relation to the location of the ring (during the same conversation as above where two police officers were present), my sibling stated she had placed it in the possession of a friend, but would not give me the details of the person involved. Again, any advice re this point appreciated? Is it a civil matter, or can criminal charges been brought for removal or items prior to probate/itinerisation of an estate etc?

Thank you in advance, and have a happy new year.

[twohoots]

Hello Michl. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I am pretty sure you will get nowhere as the Police will say it’s a civil matter. Sadly I have been in your position but do not want to give too many identifying details on here. It involved extremely sentimental items which I am heartbroken about, plus cash. The Police said they could not help at all and I have repeatedly asked the person concerned to return the items but they do not even reply. I am so sorry you find yourself in this position.

I am pretty sure though that the funeral director would keep a note of what goes in the coffin so I would speak to them asap.

[Michl]

Thank you for your feedback twohoots. Obviously disappointing to hear, but if nothing else, I would expect/hope that proving a pattern of such abhorrent behaviour, and a pattern of proven lies would be taken into consideration by a court in respect of the larger issue.

[twohoots]

Thank you for your feedback twohoots. Obviously disappointing to hear, but if nothing else, I would expect/hope that proving a pattern of such abhorrent behaviour, and a pattern of proven lies would be taken into consideration by a court in respect of the larger issue.

I had more than enough proof Michl but the Police still said they could do nothing. Do let us know how you get on though and fingers crossed you have better luck than I did.

[islandgirl]

The problem is that any legal process will have to examine the intention of the will with regard to the ring etc. This is not a criminal matter and the Police will decline to get involved. The civil court will not be interested in anything other than facts. I doubt the Police will be at all interested but as twohoots says you can try. Let us know what happens.

[Michl]

Just to clarify, the estate is intestate, there was no will. My understanding is therefore that nothing is to be removed prior to itemisation of all possessions, followed by agreement of all beneficiaries, via the probate process, or by court order. I stand to be corrected on this however. My sibling has obstructed the itemisation process (and therefore probate) by changing the locks on the property, so no one can enter to itemise/value the estate. Noted re police reticence to get involved.

[twohoots]

Just to clarify, the estate is intestate, there was no will. My understanding is therefore that nothing is to be removed prior to itemisation of all possessions, followed by agreement of all beneficiaries, via the probate process, or by court order. I stand to be corrected on this however. My sibling has obstructed the itemisation process (and therefore probate) by changing the locks on the property, so no one can enter to itemise/value the estate. Noted re police reticence to get involved.

Michl I SO feel for you. The Police will just say there is no proof that this person stole items. that’s what happened to me anyway. I had proof that the person in my case was the only person able to get into the house and I also gave them a copy of the receipt from the locksmith who we had to pay to get us into the house but they said that proved nothing either. I printed them off a whole timeline of events and provided loads of evidence but the policeman who came here barely even glanced at it and just said it was not a Police matter.

I have learned that a person can enter a property and take whatever they like and there is nothing you can do about it. There is no chance of me ever getting back what they took, The only thing that keeps me going is that one day the person who did this to us will get their comeuppance and something dreadful will happen to them for what they did.

[Michl]

Well, not that I am a vindictive or heartless person, but the big 'C' has unfortunately touched said sibling since these offences occurred.

If there is no route via the police, then I would hope there are means to recovery through the civil courts.