STOP on application for probate

[twohoots]

What happens if the person who put a stop on the above will not come to an agreement? I really do not want to go down the legal route.

[des8]

If a caveat has been entered you cannot proceed until the caveator lifts it.
If they refuse your options are to leave it for 6 months to see if they renew it or issue a warning.

Issuing a warning is not something to be done in a hurry, because the next step is when costs start to ramp up.

As an example I am the executor of a will where a caveat has been entered. The deceased passed over 12 months ago.
Two firms of solicitors are involved.
The firm that entered the caveat are hunting for something, anything to try and have the will declared invalid
The other firm (working for a beneficiary charity) are a large national outfit and they are advising not to issue a warning because of the costs angle

[twohoots]

If a caveat has been entered you cannot proceed until the caveator lifts it.
If they refuse your options are to leave it for 6 months to see if they renew it or issue a warning.

Issuing a warning is not something to be done in a hurry, because the next step is when costs start to ramp up.

As an example I am the executor of a will where a caveat has been entered. The deceased passed over 12 months ago.
Two firms of solicitors are involved.
The firm that entered the caveat are hunting for something, anything to try and have the will declared invalid
The other firm (working for a beneficiary charity) are a large national outfit and they are advising not to issue a warning because of the costs angle

Thank you so much Des. I agree, I don’t fancy the idea of this “warning” business although the Probate Office tell me it doesn’t cost anything to issue. I can see though that, as you say, costs could ramp up afterwards. I spoke to them after I posted on here because my head is all over the place but I got a helpful woman and she said the best thing to do is write a letter to the caveator and see if they can come to some agreement.

[des8]

I agree it is better to negotiate a settlement out of rather than in court

However bear in mind that a caveat should only be used if the caveator is looking to challenge the validity of the will, or the suitability of the executor.
If they think they have been left out of the will, or their legacy is too small, they should allow probate to proceed and then make a claim under
the Inheritance (provision for family and dependants) Act 1975

If they have no grounds for entering the caveat and the matter goes to court they could find themselves facing adverse costs.
You can't rely on that, but if the caveator is acting out of sheer bloody mindlessness you might be able to use it in your negotiations.

I assume from your other thread that the caveator is one of your siblings who is concerned about matters prior to your parent's demise.
That is not a reason for entering a caveat, unless (s)he thinks there was undue influence or something.

[twohoots]

I agree it is better to negotiate a settlement out of rather than in court

However bear in mind that a caveat should only be used if the caveator is looking to challenge the validity of the will, or the suitability of the executor.
If they think they have been left out of the will, or their legacy is too small, they should allow probate to proceed and then make a claim under
the Inheritance (provision for family and dependants) Act 1975

If they have no grounds for entering the caveat and the matter goes to court they could find themselves facing adverse costs.
You can't rely on that, but if the caveator is acting out of sheer bloody mindlessness you might be able to use it in your negotiations.

I assume from your other thread that the caveator is one of your siblings who is concerned about matters prior to your parent's demise.
That is not a reason for entering a caveat, unless (s)he thinks there was undue influence or something.

Thanks again Des. I think your assumptions are correct. Is it possible for me to send a Private message on here?

[des8]

If you wish to PM me ok, but it is discouraged by the site.
This is because you are more likely to receive wider advice from open forum. and incorrect advice can be corrected.

[twohoots]

If you wish to PM me ok, but it is discouraged by the site.
This is because you are more likely to receive wider advice from open forum. and incorrect advice can be corrected.

OK I won’t then. I just didn’t want to divulge too much personal info on here. As far as I can find out the person putting a stop to the application doesn’t even have to give a reason. That seems unfair to me.

[des8]

When entering a caveat no reason has to be given, but if the process of warnings, appearance and then court is proceeded the caveator may find him/herself facing an adverse costs ruling if they pursued the action without good reason.
A case in point: Mausner & Anor v Mincher & Anor [2006] EWHC 1283 (Ch) (26 April 2006)

[twohoots]

When entering a caveat no reason has to be given, but if the process of warnings, appearance and then court is proceeded the caveator may find him/herself facing an adverse costs ruling if they pursued the action without good reason.
A case in point: Mausner & Anor v Mincher & Anor [2006] EWHC 1283 (Ch) (26 April 2006)

Thanks for your help. I will go and look at this.

[twohoots]

Ooh, that’s a lot to take in! I think my next step is to write to the caveator and see whether they can agree to stop this. Would there be a template letter anywhere?

[des8]

Sorry, but I doubt there is such a letter.
You need to ask them why they have entered a caveat. Ask if they intend to challenge the validity of the will?
Point out the reasons that should underly the entering of a caveat and ask them what information they require to decide whether or not they intend to challenge the validity of the will.
Point out it is incumbent on both parties to attempt a resolution of the dispute without referring the matter to court

[twohoots]

Ooh, that’s a lot to take in! I think my next step is to write to the caveator and see whether they can agree to stop this. Would there be a template letter anywhere?

Letter written and will post tomorrow.

[twohoots]

When entering a caveat no reason has to be given, but if the process of warnings, appearance and then court is proceeded the caveator may find him/herself facing an adverse costs ruling if they pursued the action without good reason.
A case in point: Mausner & Anor v Mincher & Anor [2006] EWHC 1283 (Ch) (26 April 2006)

Hello Des. I have an email from the Probate Office and they tell me the caveator DOES have to give a reason why they have put a stop on the application. I have not had a reply to my letter to the caveator and plan to ask the Probate Office what reason was given.

[des8]

To enter a caveat, the caveator needs one of the following interests in the application:
1) an interest, in other words, entitlement to share in the estate;
2) a contrary interest, in other words, he has a different interest from the applicant for a grant.

However Form PA8A Application to stop a grant of representation does not require the caveator displays a reason: https://assets.publishing.service.go...1/pa8a-eng.pdf

[twohoots]

To enter a caveat, the caveator needs one of the following interests in the application:
1) an interest, in other words, entitlement to share in the estate;
2) a contrary interest, in other words, he has a different interest from the applicant for a grant.

However Form PA8A Application to stop a grant of representation does not require the caveator displays a reason: https://assets.publishing.service.go...1/pa8a-eng.pdf

Thanks Des. Some of the advice I have read is conflicting. This form also tells the caveator to try and resolve the matter before stopping the application. I have never had any communication from them so they have not tried at all, they just went straight to Probate Office. Some sites say it costs £3 to submit a caveat, others say £20, not that that concerns me. the email definitely says they do have to give a reason so I will look into that although how they do so if they are not asked on the form I don’t understand.