Can't get an executor to provide esate account information

[justanoldun]

A quick update.
Not sure whether it's getting old or that everything seems to be a battle nowadays. The HCEO paid the costs into our bank but it was the wrong amount - actually less than the costs never mind the fees. Two emails later and they have paid the balance. Still trying to get a response from Herts police re fraud. Our MP has taken it up and promises to get answers for us as to why no-one seems willing to take action over a self confessed fraud. A firm of solicitors offered to take up the case but wanted thousands up front - not possible. If nothing else happens I shall ask HMRC to look at the vat aspect.

[des8]

Just can't get the staff now a days.
Now in my time..................

[justanoldun]

I remember those - when men were men and sheep were frightened:-)

[JoanneJolly]

As they have not responded the court will give directions based on your paper submissions, unless you actually want a hearing.

You need to file and serve a statement of* costs for summary assessment* 24 hours before the hearing (but I don't think form N260 needs to be used)

Does anyone have a copy of the summons form to request an inventory and account order as i been trying for days to get hold of Manchester Probate registry to obtain the forms or does anyone have the code for the forms that i can look them up on the gov website please

[des8]

The form is specific to the particular probate registry and isn't available from elsewhere.
I'm afraid you just have to keep trying.

[jetbrains]

justanoldun Your post and updates have been so useful to me ( thanks to des8 as well). Would you be able to provide an update on how it went for you and any advice for someone in a similar situation. I'm in the process of sending a pre-action letter before I issue an inventory and accounts summon, however I know even if the executor does supply accounts and inventory due to the court order they won't be sufficient ( I suspect it will be the same thing, Inventory from 2019 ). Did you make any progress with the court holding the executor to account for accurate accounts and inventory or the alleged fraud. I'm also in no position to pay solicitors thousands to take on the case, I would rather attempt to exhaust any other option available before considering any form of litigation.

[justanoldun]

Hi,
we reluctantly decided to let it go. Tried several different ways to bring the executors to account without success. Contacted MP, national fraud line, police etc. The probate court would do nothing despite summons with penal notice etc. Tried to get legal services on a no win no fee basis, also without success. Like you we have no means to fund legal action ourselves even though we were advised that the action would most likely succeed - the money is long gone I think. Even contacted the inland revenue to report tax evasion/money laundering. The executor eventually realised that he was on a loser charging for probate either personally or through his plc but merely offset those charges with a fictional debt against the estate.
Certainly a lesson for us regards executor accountability - there seems to be none. Basic mistake we made was to let it go so far at the beginning - should have tried to have probate revoked or the executor removed. Have no idea whether some beneficiaries were paid anything at all.
In the end the whole thing was causing us such upset that to continue was counter productive. Sometimes you just have to let it go and move on. As I tell my children - life is not fair.
Of course it all depends upon the amounts involved - in our case it was about 30-40k taken by the executor split 14 ways. It's hard to convince people that it is not about increasing your inheritance but about the sheer bl****y injustice. Some people don't have any scruples or morals at all though so it's like banging your head against the wall. On the plus side we did have the satisfaction that the court enforcement officers got our costs from him on his doorstep.
I really do wish you luck.

[des8]

Thanks for the update, and I sympathise with you.

Unfortunately as it is basically a civil matter it is for the deprived beneficiary to enforce against the executor.
That inevitably leads to the High Court and costs.
Even if losses are recouped the strain (even if solicitors are employed) shouldn't be underestimated

[justanoldun]

Yes I know; you said that before and I agree. There would be no point in taking action as the possibility of getting the money paid back to the estate is zero as the executor will have spent it and - as far as I know he has no assets to speak of. My point was that when the estate is relatively small there is no realistic accountability. I do wonder what is the point of an executor having to 'swear'.
Thanks again for your advice. The whole thing is best forgotten - unless I get HMRC to take an interest. ;-)

[jetbrains]

Thank you again justanoldun, I'm sorry that was the outcome for you. After a couple years of dealing with this I have come to the same crossroads, I either need to risk putting myself in debt, the ability to pay for food and housing or risk loosing circa £600k split between my brother and I, just because an executor doesn't want to play by any rules. Its mind blowing that HMRC will happily take over £200k in tax and then just wipe their hands with the situation - I don't know if the system knows of these situations, or if it just doesn't care enough. All that being said, if anyone is to commit a crime, I guess probate fraud is the one to choose. ( You won't be held accountable for it ).