Lifetime Trust and Estate expenses

[Philomena]

So the trustees have unrestricted power to decide what trust assets your step mother should have received, in satisfaction of her share of the trust.

I should certainly just continue trying to negotiate and forget about court action If that clause impinges on:
"My trustees shall permit my wife to reside therein so long as she so desires and so long as she shall so desire and so reside the said trust for sale shall not be exercised without the consent of my wife I declare that no involuntary ceasing to reside in said property shall be construed as a ceasing to reside therein and that such residence shall in any case be subject to the payment by my wife of the rates taxes and cost of keeping the said property in reasonable repair but my trustees shall at of the cost of my residuary estate keep the said property insured against fire and damage by aircraft and pay all outgoings other than those above mentioned"

However it depends on how the will is drafted.
It is impossible to give any definite opinion when working from excerpts.
In an earlier post I think you suggested that your solicitor basically said "just see what you can negotiate" as presumably he did not think you had a strong case for court action, or that the costs would outweigh the benefits.

Thjank you for your response. My solicitor said I could claim for utility bills and also cleaning and gardening (but not maintenance) and all of the furniture removed from the property and wrote a letter stating this.

I received a letter from solicitors acting for the trustee which said that the utilities were personal to the occupant of the property and cannot be reimbursed and that the cost of the furniture removed is not the responsibility of the estate, and also “the advice you have received makes reference to the HMRC’s trusts settlements and estates manuel. If that paragraph of the manual is read in full this confirms the settled position that items such as utilities are the general responsibility of the occupier of the property and not the trustees and so even if the trustees have power to pay these expenses, they are not deductible for income tax purposes”.

I took this letter to my solicitor who said as it was contentious, she could not deal with it and passed the file to a legal executive, in July. In October, he said he thought that cleaning and gardening would come under keeping the property in reasonable repair, he advised me to bank the cheques I had been sent and try to get the rest later. He said it would cost thousands to take the matter to court. He wrote a letter saying I would settle for the utility bills, furniture removed and half of one of the bonds in the trust fund. I was sent a cheque for the bond, but am still owed £5,700.00. The original solicitor said she would write another letter for me and then said she was leaving and there was no one else that could deal with this, which is why I find myself in this situation. I think my main concern has been whether or not I have been paid what I am due.

The Probate Registry said this was a very simple matter and I should just instruct another solicitor. This has also been my dilema. Its cost me £240.00 for the 1^st solicitor’s letter and £300 for the second.

[des8]

As I said it is difficult to comment without seeing the full will.

However your dilemma is that contentious litigation is horrendously expensive, and the amount £6000 may not be sufficiently "meaty" to interest a no win no fee arrangement,
If you go it alone and lose you may have to pick up the other sides costs if the claim is not allocated to the small claims track
You could seek advice from a solicitor who conducts contentious litigation to see if they will act on a no win no fee basis.
Try for a free initial appointment (or perhaps a fixed fee appointment) to see what is possible.

[Philomena]

As I said it is difficult to comment without seeing the full will.

However your dilemma is that contentious litigation is horrendously expensive, and the amount £6000 may not be sufficiently "meaty" to interest a no win no fee arrangement,
If you go it alone and lose you may have to pick up the other sides costs if the claim is not allocated to the small claims track
You could seek advice from a solicitor who conducts contentious litigation to see if they will act on a no win no fee basis.
Try for a free initial appointment (or perhaps a fixed fee appointment) to see what is possible.

Thank you, I did approach a no win/ fee but they were not at all interested. I’m attaching the rest of the will, but appreciate it may not be clear. I feel I am very disadvantaged in all of this, and it may be that there is nothing that can be done about it. I must say it has been a great help to post all of this on your forum, if it is felt I I have no case, I must simply forget all about it.

The will leaves my stepmother all personal chattels as defined in by the administration of estates act 1925, then there are some legacies, and then a clause gives the residence in fee simple to the trustees who shall permit my wife to reside in so long as she so desires, followed by subject to the payment by my wife, (as listed above).

The next clause gives my stepmother powers to sell the house and purchase another house with any surplus money being held as part of the residuary estate

The next to give the trustees powers of the sale of the house to give the income thereof to my wife during her life

7. I give all my real and personal estate not hereby or by any codicil hereto otherwise disposed of to my trustees upon trust to sell call in and convert the same or such part thereof as shall not consist of ready moneys with full power to postpone such sale calling in and conversion without being responsible for any loss thereby occasioned and out of the net moneys to arise from such sale and any ready moneys comprised in my estate to pay my debts and funeral and testamentary expenses (including all capital transfer tax and other taxes or duties payable by reason of my death in respect of my estate) and to invest the residue thereof in any of the investments hereby authorised.

The next clause pays the income of the residue of such moneys as income to my wife during her lifetime. Then after her death the residuary estate is held for my daughter and if she predeceased me her children etc
10. In the administration of my estate and the execution of the trusts hereof my trustees shall have in addition to the power conferred on them by the general law the following powers:-

1. To raise at any time and from time to time the whole or any part of the vested or contingent shares in any residuary estate of any grandchild of mine and pay the same to or apply the same for the benefit of him or her

b. to invest moneys comprised in my residuary estate and to transpose investments as if they were a sole beneficial owner thereof including power to purchase retain or improve any freehold or leasehold house or other dwelling for use as a residence
c. to exercise all powers of appropriation and other incidental powers conferred on personal representatives by section 41 of the administration of estates act 1925 without any of the consents required by that section
d. to treat as income all income from any part of my estate regardless of the period in which the same shall have accrued and to disregard all rules of apportionment whether legal or equitable between capital and income
e. whether they have an obligation or discretion under the provisions of this will or under the general law to pay or apply income or capital to an infant or for his benefit to discharge that obligation or exercise that discretion if they so desire by paying the same to any parent or guardian of the infant or to the infant himself of the age of 16 and their respective recipients shall be a good discharge to my trustees who shall not be obliged to see how it is used.

[Philomena]

Thank you, I did approach a no win/ fee but they were not at all interested. I’m attaching the rest of the will, but appreciate it may not be clear. I feel I am very disadvantaged in all of this, and it may be that there is nothing that can be done about it. I must say it has been a great help to post all of this on your forum, if it is felt I I have no case, I must simply forget all about it.

The will leaves my stepmother all personal chattels as defined in by the administration of estates act 1925, then there are some legacies, and then a clause gives the residence in fee simple to the trustees who shall permit my wife to reside in so long as she so desires, followed by subject to the payment by my wife, (as listed above).

The next clause gives my stepmother powers to sell the house and purchase another house with any surplus money being held as part of the residuary estate

The next to give the trustees powers of the sale of the house to give the income thereof to my wife during her life

7. I give all my real and personal estate not hereby or by any codicil hereto otherwise disposed of to my trustees upon trust to sell call in and convert the same or such part thereof as shall not consist of ready moneys with full power to postpone such sale calling in and conversion without being responsible for any loss thereby occasioned and out of the net moneys to arise from such sale and any ready moneys comprised in my estate to pay my debts and funeral and testamentary expenses (including all capital transfer tax and other taxes or duties payable by reason of my death in respect of my estate) and to invest the residue thereof in any of the investments hereby authorised.

The next clause pays the income of the residue of such moneys as income to my wife during her lifetime. Then after her death the residuary estate is held for my daughter and if she predeceased me her children etc
10. In the administration of my estate and the execution of the trusts hereof my trustees shall have in addition to the power conferred on them by the general law the following powers:-

1. To raise at any time and from time to time the whole or any part of the vested or contingent shares in any residuary estate of any grandchild of mine and pay the same to or apply the same for the benefit of him or her

b. to invest moneys comprised in my residuary estate and to transpose investments as if they were a sole beneficial owner thereof including power to purchase retain or improve any freehold or leasehold house or other dwelling for use as a residence
c. to exercise all powers of appropriation and other incidental powers conferred on personal representatives by section 41 of the administration of estates act 1925 without any of the consents required by that section
d. to treat as income all income from any part of my estate regardless of the period in which the same shall have accrued and to disregard all rules of apportionment whether legal or equitable between capital and income
e. whether they have an obligation or discretion under the provisions of this will or under the general law to pay or apply income or capital to an infant or for his benefit to discharge that obligation or exercise that discretion if they so desire by paying the same to any parent or guardian of the infant or to the infant himself of the age of 16 and their respective recipients shall be a good discharge to my trustees who shall not be obliged to see how it is used.

******

Thank you all for all your input. I’ve been reading the gov.uk chancery division guidance, and assume they would be dealing with this, and wonder if they would give me guidance prior to a court hearing, (but I may be wrong on this as I am still digesting it all). My claim seems to be around £20,000.00 (over what I have received) for the utilities & insurance, but if I am able to claim for repairs to the roof, tarmacing of drive, new fires and boilers etc, it is in the region of £35,000.00.

I am wondering, as it is so specialist, whether mediation is a better idea, as opposed to “no win no fee” but have no experience. I would be very grateful if anyone has any advice. Thank you all very much, all this has made me feel much better about it all as I have found it very difficult to deal with.

[des8]

The court officials will give no legal advice as it is forbidden.

You said you had approached a solicitor about a conditional fee arrangement without success, so my advice would be to try more than one.

Mediation is always advisable, but you need the other party to agree to it.

[Philomena]

Thank you

[Philomena]

Further to my above posts in respect of claiming the outgoings of the house out of the trust fund I have finally got in touch with a large firm of solicitors in Cardiff. I have sent them a copy of the will which is 3 pages and the 7/8 letters that have been sent between myself and my co-executor.

They have said they think it will need 5 hours work to advise me at £210 hourly rate with VAT which comes in at £1,260.00. Is it worth shopping around, or is it the case that most solicitors charge the same. I'm quite happy to pay, but just wondered. And also do I need a specialist solicitor for a trust fund dispute or is it something that most solicitors could deal with. Thank you

[des8]

That sounds quite reasonable to me.
It seems to be about the UK average for an experienced solicitor

[Philomena]

Thank you very much for confirming this to me, I wasn't sure and will crack on with it (I see the solicitor dealing with this has been qualified since 2018) and thank you again for all your previous replies, it has been much appreciated.

[Philomena]

Thank you very much for confirming this to me, I wasn't sure and will crack on with it (I see the solicitor dealing with this has been qualified since 2018) and thank you again for all your previous replies, it has been much appreciated.

My co-executor and I are in dispute about what should be repaid under the terms of a will.

I now have a problem with the solicitors I instructed. I sent a letter outlining the problem to a firm of solicitors and had several conversations with the solicitor that was going to deal with the matter, who emailed me and said that he would

” formally review the relevant documents which you have provided to us and in particular the terms of the will and consider how the terms of it should properly be interpreted. If we then consider that further sums are due to the estate, then look to ascertain the value of those amounts and advise as to merits and the likely costs of seeking to recover them, should we be unable to reach agreement”.

When he sent me this email he said that he would be leaving the company and passed this matter to another solicitor. I paid the fees to the firm (some £1,200.00).

The solicitor dealing with the matter firstly reviewed the wrong will, and then after I emailed them to say that he had not looked at the clause I wished to have interpreted (and enclosing my original letter) or the correct will, he sent me a further email which, just repeated the what the clause in the will says, and then outlined the correspondence which has passed between me, my co-executor and solicitors. I then emailed again to ask what should be repaid under the terms of the will and he has said that I need to send him a further £756.00 to deal with my query.

I only wanted the clause in the will to be interpreted and have not received the advice I asked for or any advice at all, the solicitor has only told me what the will says and what our correspondence says. Can anyone advise me how I should deal with this.

[atticus]

I think you need to complain to the law firm in question. Obtain and follow the firm's complaints procedure.

[Philomena]

I think you need to complain to the law firm in question. Obtain and follow the firm's complaints procedure.

Thank you

[dslippy]

It may be time to move on.
Having tried to read the above I am not at all clear just who is claiming just what from just whom and on what basis.
It would need bto be very much clearer before action was taken.