Executor Blocked all Contact

[Bex34]

My mum passed away, left a will naming her friend as executor. Probate isn't required as the only estate is bank funds which have since been transferred by the executor (banks have confirmed this with a substantial amount of money). Now I know that my mum always said to me and my brother on the event of her death we will be sole beneficiaries (dad passed away some years before). This was confirmed by my now ex sister in law as my mum at one point asked her to read the will. My ex sister in law says she would swear on oath that what she read in the will was correct.

We didn't know where the executor lived to be able to speak to her (as we dont know her personally), we only had a contact number from mums phone book. The executor has now blocked our numbers so we have no contact at all but before this she sent a message to say you haven't been left anything in the will.

I now have the death certificate so I have the address as she registered mums death. I wrote to her asking for information, as two weeks have lapsed she is obviously ignoring my request.

Me and my brother are at a loss of what to do as we dont have the money to go through a solicitor and my mum put her trust in this woman. How are we supposed to obtain a copy of the will if it hasnt gone through probate?

[des8]

Sorry to hear of your loss and subsequent concerns

Unfortunately if no application for probate was made, it will be difficult to obtain a copy of your mother's will. This is because a will remains a private, rather than a public, document unless and until a grant of probate is made.

You mention your mother left a substantial amount of money. If it was in excess of £5000 it is probable that probate should have been applied for

As the executor has already inter meddled in the estate, you can apply for a court order directing the executor to apply for probate within a certain time


Tagging Peridot who will have more comprehensive advice, but probably not over the weekend

[Bex34]

Sorry to hear of your loss and subsequent concerns

Unfortunately if no application for probate was made, it will be difficult to obtain a copy of your mother's will. This is because a will remains a private, rather than a public, document unless and until a grant of probate is made.

You mention your mother left a substantial amount of money. If it was in excess of £5000 it is probable that probate should have been applied for

As the executor has already inter meddled in the estate, you can apply for a court order directing the executor to apply for probate within a certain time


Tagging Peridot who will have more comprehensive advice, but probably not over the weekend

Hello Des8, the amount of money left in one of the banks was a large sum but just under the 50k probate amount so all that was required was a closure form and the death certificate.

Thank you.

[des8]

just because the amount left by your mother was below the bank's threshold, doesn't necessarily mean that probate was not required.

In any case there is the option of a Citation for Probate forcing the intermeddling person to formalise their role by obtaining a Grant of Representation and completing the action. If the intermeddler does not take these steps or file an Appearance in response to the Citation, then you can seek Court directions either for the intermeddler to obtain a Grant, or perhaps allowing you to obtain a grant yourself.

wait a couple of days for Peridot to pop in.

[Peridot]

Hi Bex34,

I'm sorry to hear of your issues following your mother's death. It must be a real concern for you. As Des8 mentioned just because the amount at the bank was below the probate threshold (I assume you mean the inheritance tax level?) does not mean probate is not needed. Most banks and building societies have an amount that they will transfer to executors (where there is a Will) or administrators (where there is no Will) without seeing a Grant of probate. Personally I have not heard of an amount of £50k being a sum that would be transferred without a Grant. Usually it is around the £10,000 to £20,000 amount where the exec/administrator would be expected to sign an indemnity for the bank confirming they are authorised to have the money and should there be any come back the bank will not be liable.

Unfortunately different banks have different maximum amounts they will transfer, I would have thought the bank would confirm this to you if you contact them. The other issue is if there were several different banks/building societies all with smaller amounts, then all could have been passed to the executor/administrator with indemnities signed and none would be close to the banks threshold for closing the accounts without a Grant.

As Des8 suggests you can apply for a citation to take probate and it may be worth checking that a Grant hasn't been obtained without you knowing which can be done here:- https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

It may be worth writing again to this 'executor' and pointing out if they don't give you a substantive response by 14 days for example that you will be making an application to the Court and seeking the costs from her for doing so. Whether you make the application is of course up to you but the threat may make them act.

You may be able to get a free or reduced fee initial advice from a contested probate specialist who can then go through the options with you before making a decision which route to take.

[des8]

For info only: Major Banks/Building societies/Insurance companies thresholds for probate:

• Aviva - £50,000
• AXA - £10,000
• Bank of Ireland - £10,000
• Bank of Scotland - £25,000
• Barclays - £50,000
• Birmingham Midshires - £25,000
• Britannia - £30,000
• Cheltenham & Gloucester - £25,000
• Co-op Bank - £30,000
• First Direct - £20,000
• Halifax - £50,000
• HSBC - Decided on a case-by-case basis
• Lloyds TSB - £50,000
• M&S Money - £15,000
• Nationwide
  • Under £5,000 - no Grant of Probate is required
  • £5,000 - £30,000 - a certified copy of the Grant of Probate is required, or alternatively the 'close account' form will need to be witnessed by a Solicitor
  • Over £30,000 - the original Grant of Probate is required
• Natwest - £25,000
• NS&I (National Savings / Premium Bonds) - £5,000 to £15,000 depending on the Will and the number of Executors
• Post Office - £10,000
• Royal Bank of Scotland - £25,000
• Sainsbury's Bank - £20,000
• Santander - £50,000
• Skipton Building Society £15,000
• Tesco Bank - £25,000
• Woolwich - £15,000
• Yorkshire Building Society - £30,000

[Peridot]

Brilliant thanks des8

[Bex34]

just because the amount left by your mother was below the bank's threshold, doesn't necessarily mean that probate was not required.

In any case there is the option of a Citation for Probate forcing the intermeddling person to formalise their role by obtaining a Grant of Representation and completing the action. If the intermeddler does not take these steps or file an Appearance in response to the Citation, then you can seek Court directions either for the intermeddler to obtain a Grant, or perhaps allowing you to obtain a grant yourself.

wait a couple of days for Peridot to pop in.

Hi, apologies for the delay in responding. I have now obtained information that the person in question has also sworn an oath claiming there is no next of kin and crossed out the next of kin details in order to obtain part of the estate knowing full well there is next of kin.

Please can you tell me how and where would apply for a citation?

[des8]

I think you first have to enter a caveat, and then request the court to issue the citation
The request may be in person or by post
Peridot will know more about the mechanics (I hope)
The citation procedure is governed by the Non Contentious Probate Rules 1987 (nos 46 &47)
It requires an affidavit to be sworn and the application to be personally served on the executor.
The form required for the caveat (no 3) can be found in the schedule of the 1987 rules http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...ule/FIRST/made

[Bex34]

I think you first have to enter a caveat, and then request the court to issue the citation
The request may be in person or by post
Peridot will know more about the mechanics (I hope)
The citation procedure is governed by the Non Contentious Probate Rules 1987 (nos 46 &47)
It requires an affidavit to be sworn and the application to be personally served on the executor.
The form required for the caveat (no 3) can be found in the schedule of the 1987 rules http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...ule/FIRST/made

Hi, thank you. I have already entered a Caveat to be on the safe side.

[Bex34]

Sorry to hear of your loss and subsequent concerns

Unfortunately if no application for probate was made, it will be difficult to obtain a copy of your mother's will. This is because a will remains a private, rather than a public, document unless and until a grant of probate is made.

You mention your mother left a substantial amount of money. If it was in excess of £5000 it is probable that probate should have been applied for

As the executor has already inter meddled in the estate, you can apply for a court order directing the executor to apply for probate within a certain time


Tagging Peridot who will have more comprehensive advice, but probably not over the weekend

Hi Des8, having put pressure on the executor I have finally received a copy of the Will. It appears it is another Will done by an online drafting company in 2006. My Mum wouldn't even know how to use a computer let alone google a number to arrange this. Because of this I set about ringing all solicitors in Mums area at the time and I finally managed to find the solicitor that wrote Mums original Will which was only 12 month prior to the new one. This is the one leaving myself and brother as beneficiaries and an amount to her Grandchildren. Having spoken to the solicitor that wrote this Will, they say it is very strange as both mum and dad visited them to do their mirror wills shortly before my dad passed, then when he passed mum returned and updated her Will to reflect this.

The solicitor doesn't understand why in only 12 months did she not ring them to make them aware of this new Will so they could destroy her original or make an appointment for them to update it.

In her original Will there is an attestation clause confirming that it had been read in full as SHE IS BLIND and then her signature along with the executors (solicitors) The new Will doesn't have this attestation clause.

I wrote to the Will drafters for a Larke Nugus, they provided me with information saying that their consultants are trained in the importance of ensuring the clients have the requisite mental capacity to make there Wills and signing instructions were posted along with the drafted Will. Signing instructions sent to a visually impaired person??!! It wasn't even witnessed in front of a solicitor to ensure it was done correctly. They also emailed me a copy of the signing instructions that was posted with the Will. It states each page has to be initialled and failure to witness the Will correctly will invalidate it.

New Will 2 pages long, no initials on the first beneficiary page, font completely different on the 2nd signing page.

My mums address on this Will is also the executors address, my Mum has never lived at this address, the signing instructions and the fully drafted Will were also posted to this address.

I have also spoken to one of the Witnesses, she confirmed that she did not sign any Will for my mum and certainly wasnt present in the room with the other person whilst mum signed as she would remember doing this.

I have spoken to a solicitor, and she confirms that due to the lack of attestation clause and my mum being blind, along with the witness confirming she didn't sign would render the Will invalid. But because there isn't enough in my mums estate to cover legal costs they wont pursue the matter.

If the Will had gone through probate then the caveat would have stopped this and I could have then put all the evidence forward, but because it didn't, they have basically taken everything from an invalid Will.

I really do need to find help from somewhere as I have all of the evidence to prove the Will should be revoked as invalid. And would appreciate any suggestions on what to do.

[des8]

If you want to pursue this matter it appears that you will have to "do it yourself" (the amount quoted in post 3 should have been £5K not £50K?)

I think the only way forward are as described in earlier posts ie application for citation

[Bex34]

If you want to pursue this matter it appears that you will have to "do it yourself" (the amount quoted in post 3 should have been £5K not £50K?)

I think the only way forward are as described in earlier posts ie application for citation

Thank you, would it be the probate registry who I contact to apply for the citation?
I just need to find out where to do this and I can then get on with doing it.

[des8]

The citation is issued by the probate Registry.
You will need to swear an affidavit confirming the circumstances for requiring the citation


On a slightly different approach, is it worth the stress going down this route?
If your mother's estate was less than £5k, after funerary expenses and the settling of any other debts (eg utilities), how much would be left to be divided between you and your brother?
More importantly would the executor be able to pay?

[Bex34]

The citation is issued by the probate Registry.
You will need to swear an affidavit confirming the circumstances for requiring the citation


On a slightly different approach, is it worth the stress going down this route?
If your mother's estate was less than £5k, after funerary expenses and the settling of any other debts (eg utilities), how much would be left to be divided between you and your brother?
More importantly would the executor be able to pay?

Hi, thank you I will contact the probate registry.

Mums estate was just short of £50,000 in one bank and there was a second account with savings. Funeral already paid for and no debts.

I have already received confirmation from the banks who confirmed that if the Will is revoked as invalid, which it is, then they will transfer to the executors of the original Will and then claim from the other executors through litigation.