power of attorney accounting and subsequent probate accounts

[Bazaar21]

we are named beneficiaries on our family members will, the executor is non related, but also had an epa, we have tried to obtain details of previous accounts to ensure all beneficiaries are due correct amounts, but thus far this has been refused.
house was sold some years ago and no accounting has been forthcoming.
the executor just sends our requests to her solicitor, which is obviously in the solicitors favour so they can deplete funds in the estate, ( unless i am wrong i am cynical).
have approached court of protection and they cannot find evidence of poa, so we are obviously concerned, but seem to be hitting brick walls at every turn.
is there any way we can obtain these historic accounting details? either by way of application to court of protection or public guardian?
Or do we have to put up with stonewalling from solicitors?
we have looked at duties of executor and those acting on their behalf, we feel there is a way to gain additional knowledge, but dont want to be gungho and seem to be accusing anyone of anything, we just want to have details of all the dealings. thanks for anyones time

[Bazaar21]

ok small update, executor had EPOA and solicitor has stated that they didnt have to approach the public guardian whils house sale went through. Also, that they merged with the original solicitor who dealt with the sale. Plus they cannot access historical files due to the merger. Im starting to feel this is getting a little smelly

[Peridot]

Hi Bazaar21,
The EPA and the Will are completely separate. The EPA appoints the attorney during the person's lifetime to deal with matters when the person is unable to. I assume it was during this time that the property was sold? In those circumstances you wouldn't be entitled to see the lifetime accounts.

Once someone dies the assets at the date they die are the relevant assets to be dealt with as far as honouring the Will is concerned. Are you a residuary beneficiary under the Will? Residuary beneficiaries usually get to see the estate accounts although this isn't are entitled to see the estate accounts although this is in line with good practice and not a legal requirement of executors.

Was your relative in a care home following the house sale? Was the EPA registered if your relative lacked the mental capacity to deal with their own affairs? Have you contacted the Office of the Public Guardian?

Historically EPA's could be used once they were completed often without registration. Once an individual lost capacity then they should have been but many slipped through the cracks as banks etc had already had sight of the EPA so dealt with the attorney already. Unless they knew the individual who had given the power to the attorney they may not be aware the person had lost capacity. Since LPA (Lasting Powers of Attorney) came into force this is no longer possible as they have to be registered to be used.

What is it you actually wish to know, what the proceeds of the house sale were used for or another reason?

[Hagalout]

Apologies to OP for hijacking thread, but could I just ask Peridot a quick question!?
Is it a fact that then since LPA's were introduced in 2007? A bank couldn't possibly accept one that hadn't been registered at the OPG? I have always had a concern over whether my mum ever registered the LPA she had for her partner in 2009, I do have a letter of acceptance from the bank, but no other evidence other than the solicitors original paperwork.

[Peridot]

Hi Hagalout,

In my experience LPA's are not accepted by banks etc unless registered. When registered they have a stamp and a number printed through the whole document so it is clear they are registered. Generally LPA's are registered as soon as they are created and kept safe until such time they are needed. This is why people are told that as soon as the LPA is registered it is useable and therefore if you don't want your attorney dealing with things at that point, it needs filing safely. If they are lost or defaced the whole process has to happen again and if the person making the LPA has by then lost capacity to do so it wouldn't be possible an application to the Court of Protection to be appointed a deputy to deal with someone's affairs would be needed which is very expensive.

If a law firm prepared the LPA they will often keep them in their strong room until either the donor requests them or the attorney attends with proof the person (donor) has lost capacity and they need to start using the powers.

I should say since 2007 Enduring Powers of Attorney (EPA) also need to be registered but it wouldn't surprise me if someone had already presented the EPA to bank etc (Pre 2007) it may not have been or even shortly after the introduction of LPA's even as EPA's had historically not been so there may have been some EPA's that slipped through without registering them until the process bedded in so to speak.

Hope that clarifies.

[Hagalout]

That seems clear enough in your explanation, thank you. Her partner was diagnosed with dementia and they appeared to get all their affairs in order shortly after, wills, PofA, severance of joint tenancy etc. But as I say the only paperwork I can find is the original paperwork signed by the solicitors, and this bank acceptance letter dated 2011, so hopefully all is as you say stored safely although I have previously expressed my concerns to the solicitors without confirmation as they are already representing me in a probate dispute. It is a long running dispute and that would be just another issue on top of the rest. Thank you for your prompt reply.

[Peridot]

Hi again,
If 2011 was the letter I would imagine that the LPA had been registered correctly. Hopefully one less thing to worry about!

[Hagalout]

Yes fingers crossed