Intermeddling????

[stunner1901]

Good morning all

My dad passed away in August 18 and left a number of debts behind

Most of these have been "written off" without issue but the County Council are really playing up re outstanding care charges

He owed them around £1400 for care services and since i notified them off his death they are demanding to see final bank statement, which i have supplied, but are now asking for all statements between july 17 and august 18.

Can they demand these and if so what will it prove? He had a gambling problem so although i tried to control his money for him he did what he did. I never had POA.

My view is what is done is done but they are threatening court proceedings against me if i fail to provide statements

Any advice very much appreciated

kind regards

[Amethyst]

Are you the executor of your dads estate ? It sounds like the estate was insolvent in any case so write back and tell them that you are not the executor and your dads estate was insolvent anyway. You are not liable for the debt, they could only claim it from the estate, so past bank statements aren't going to help them. What does this letter actually say about court ?

[stunner1901]

Hi Amethyst

I am the executor although , as you rightly say, there was no money in the estate. All he left was a small funeral plan which didnt cover the cost

The letter states that unless i provide final statement plus the statements from july to aug they will recommend further action including possible court proceedings.

I have no qualms with final statement but I just cannot see why they want or have the right to request the older ones. Dad has gone so what he did with his money os irrelevant in my eyes and nobody elses business

Thanks in advance

[stunner1901]

I have attached copy of email


"I write further to our email correspondence on 26 February regarding the late Mr JT. As per my last email, I had advised that we would be willing to accept from you evidence that Mr T’s account was overdrawn but that we would still require Mr T’s bank statement from July 2017 to August 2018/the point the account was closed.

We note that you have not responded to my email and/or provided the evidence you claim to have as well as the bank statements.

The purpose of this email, is to request said documentation again. Failure to respond and/or provide the relevant information will leave us with no option but to recommend to our client that more formal action be taken against you. This may include Court Proceedings.

Please note that intermeddling in the Estate, for example administering assets without the authority of a Grant, will result in whoever does so becoming personally liable. Personal liability will cease when evidence is provided to the contrary that no intermeddling took place."

[Amethyst]

That explains your thread title. You've told them you are the executor - so there's really no reason for them to waffle on about intermeddling....

Anyway you can't pay the care home debt from the estate as there was nothing in the estate. You have evidenced that and that should be enough. You have provided them with the final estate accounts?

Where the estate is represented by executors, the recovery action needs to be addressed to those executors, by way of amendment in a commenced action or from the outset if a claim has yet to be brought. The actions of an executor are governed by the Administration of Estates Act (AEA) 1925, and any failure to comply with the provisions of the Act can add a further cause of action to the LA’s claim. A failure to take into account unpaid care contributions in the estate’s administration will see an executor fall foul of section 25 of the AEA 1925, and become personally liable for the debt.

It is worth bearing in mind that formal appointment under a Will is not the only basis upon which personal liability can arise; if a family member takes some action towards administering the estate in the absence of a grant of probate, this can be classed as ‘intermeddling’. An individual who intermeddles in an estate can be held personally liable for his actions.

In cases of intestacy where no family member steps in to proceed with administration, or indeed where executors are appointed but are unwilling to act and renounce their position - which is often the case where the estate will ultimately be insolvent - the LA, as creditor, is in a position to apply for a grant of probate and deal directly with the deceased person’s affairs. In many cases, this will be the only means to recover any outstanding debt and it is frequently a worthwhile course of action. Even though the estate may well be insolvent, recovering a proportion of the outstanding debt may well merit this step being taken and has to be a worthwhile consideration before a write-off is considered. The procedure for any LA considering this is set out in the Non Contentious Probate Rules 1987.

Peridot will know whether you are better off just giving them what they ask for or if you are justified in refusing to send them over a year of your dad's personal banking information.

[Peridot]

Hi Stunner1901,
The LA can be somewhat bullish! Not what you need when you've lot your father.
I wonder whether they suspect that funds have been transferred in the last year to reduce any assets your father had. In their mind this may be a case of intentional deprivation, which they would be entitled to pursue I'm afraid. It seems ridiculous for such a small sum. Surely there are large amounts to chase but there you are!
If no considerable sums or significant regular payments have been made to family or to another account for example, then they have nothing to chase for. If the account doesn't show anything other than his gambling problem then there is nothing they can do but it may be quicker to demonstrate that by disclosing the accounts?