Executor has mortgaged estate for personal gain

[QueenGeek]

Blimey, she's a bit open about forging your Dad's signature and changing the will to suit herself then ? bizarre. Presumably just believes she's invincible and you won't do anything about it.

Handwriting experts will be able to provide an expert report on that. You do need to get everything into a specialist solicitor. The Witness's may be required to sign afadavits about whether they did actually witness your Dad sign the Will.

Yeah, she honestly thought she would get away with it. I've been too mentally unwell as I was the one looking after my parents until I literally was just days away from a 2nd mental breakdown. She never imagined I would ever be well enough to find out what she has done, she also never imagined I would confront her and and was quite open with me about the Wills being changed - I even saw one of them before she changed it as she stated an amount and I said that the one I was reading had a different amount so she said, "Oh, I'll have to change that" then she was open about the other things she'd changed on them. There was a £15k difference between what the house was valued at and what was bequeathed and she was going to just keep that plus anything else if the house sold for more.

The Police said the handwriting experts needed 20 examples of Dad's signature to prove it was forged, but as she has literally taken everything out of storage and is keeping it at her house there's very little chance of getting 20 samples. Plus she traced the signature through the page so she didn't do it freehand.

I have no doubt that she will be able to persuade her friends to perjure themselves on the affadavit, so I have little hope there.

She has utilised the divide & conquer method to make sure nobody in the family were talking to each other. My parents' deaths were 2 weeks apart and we were all devastated. While we grieved, she put things in place to make sure she profited. She has been described as a Malignant Narcissist. The family have come back together without her and have been sharing information, which is why all of her misdeeds are showing up.

I know we probably won't be able to get anything from the estate after she has destroyed it, but if we can prevent her from doing this to other families and brought to account for her deeds, then it will have been worth it.


Thank you for looking into this, I know it's a complicated situation and will take a great deal of work to unravel her lies.

Queen Geek

[Peridot]

Blimey she sounds delightful, but not the most discreet which will probably be her downfall! Is she affiliated to any organisation such as The Society of Will Writers? This is their site:- https://www.willwriters.com/professi...andards-board/

Is there any other organisation she has connections to? It may be worth having a bit of a dig particularly if you have concerns that she is possibly defrauding other vulnerable people?

As far as your family situation is concerned it would be worth sticking together it seems and at least getting some formal face to face legal advice on the options that maybe you could all club together to pay for. Then at least you have all the options and the rest of the family can make a decision on the next steps.

Here if you need any support along the way. Do keep us posted.

[QueenGeek]

Blimey she sounds delightful, but not the most discreet which will probably be her downfall! Is she affiliated to any organisation such as The Society of Will Writers? This is their site:- https://www.willwriters.com/professi...andards-board/

Is there any other organisation she has connections to? It may be worth having a bit of a dig particularly if you have concerns that she is possibly defrauding other vulnerable people?

As far as your family situation is concerned it would be worth sticking together it seems and at least getting some formal face to face legal advice on the options that maybe you could all club together to pay for. Then at least you have all the options and the rest of the family can make a decision on the next steps.

Here if you need any support along the way. Do keep us posted.

Hi Peridot, she is apparently affiliated with the Guild of Professional Will Writers, the National Federation of Funeral Directors, and Safe Hands Funeral Plans (although I'm not certain any of these are correct as she also has several degrees and many qualifications listed that she did not earn!).

She was all set for using her portion of the inheritance to open a funeral parlour...but then she decided to take it all and open a nightclub instead within weeks of the Probate being settled.

I've chosen a solciitor which seems to have good write ups and will ask for the half hour free consultation to see if they can help or pass me onto someone who is more qualified.

I've also ordered a copy of the Grant & Will from the Government website you showed me (just to make sure it hasn't been changed yet again from the one I have, even though it's not the actual "original" one without changes.

Action Fraud have passed the case onto her area Police to look into, our local Police said we needed the proof from the creditors (my forged signature or something else), I gave them a concertina folder full of printouts of Land Registry deeds, letters to and from creditors, probate, Police, Facebook messages, emails, letters to and from solicitors for my other sister, a copy of the Will she expected my Nan to sign and it's still not enough. It's exhausting as she's just carrying on like it doesn't matter and we should not be questioning what she has done - we are beneath her.

We are all going to stick together and see this through

Thank you to everyone for the great advice and support.

Blessings

Queen Geek

[Amethyst]

The Police said the handwriting experts needed 20 examples of Dad's signature to prove it was forged, but as she has literally taken everything out of storage and is keeping it at her house there's very little chance of getting 20 samples. Plus she traced the signature through the page so she didn't do it freehand.

Tracing can be detected by forensic handwriting analysis. Ask your solicitor about how to get the Will examined for such forgery. Examples of the signature could be obtained through the bank as there are very likely cheques, agreements and so on. The Police would have the power to request these.

Just for info for you:

Patel v Patel [2017] EWHC 133 (Ch) applying the guidance of Lord Nicholls in Re H (Minors) [1996] AC 563 at 586 D-G, [1996] 1 All ER 1. In Patel v Patel the claimant was found to have forged his mother's will. The claimant and the witnesses to the forged will were subsequently found to have been in contempt of court 'of the most serious kind'. The claimant was given an immediate custodial sentence of twelve months and the witnesses three months.

https://www.hughjames.com/patel-v-patel-cwte/

[QueenGeek]

Thank you Amethyst for that info - very useful and I've passed it onto the rest of the family.

I have an appointment with a solicitor next week, I used their contact form to explain as well as I could the complicated matter and spoke to him at length on the phone today. He said I should contact him when the Probate copy of the Will comes through.

Interesting development today:

I got the electronic copy of the Will today, could I just ask as I am uncertain what happens to the Wills at Probate court but:


The electronic copy is different to the one I have at home and the one my older sister (Executor) provided to my other sister's solicitor some time ago.


1. There is a page with the specific legacy detailed for my little sister which in the original contains an introductory paragraph, almost a full page of why she has been left a certain amount of money and containing a great deal of vitriol (which my older sister told me she had added to just to "stick the knife in some more"), and closes with a further paragraph detailing the actual amount left.

2. My older sister told me that my younger sister had requested that this section of vitriol be redacted or blanked out as she felt it would affect her career prospects.

3. My younger sister said she requested no such thing and had even shown a copy of the Will to her boss.

4. When I look at the legacy page now, I do not see a redacted or blanked out space, the paragraph before the vitriol and after the vitriol are now next to each other and my Dad's name is still printed at the bottom of the page.

If the court have redacted the pages, then surely they would simply blank out the paragraphs and the gap would be obvious. The page has completely been reprinted.

Is this something the court would do or is this evidence of the Will being changed on this page? I know it's not the page with the amounts written on, but if this page is different and the probate court did not do it, then that leaves my sister as the changee surely?

Any ideas on whether this is something that the court would do or is this something that the Police would take as actual evidence?

Many thanks

Queen Geek

[Amethyst]

The will from the probate site is a scan of the original ( well the one that was entered as being the original - but no, not edited by the court / probate office ) See https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help seems likely you will have to get a sealed copy depending how far this goes.

This page of nastiness to your little sister appears to have just been written by your older sister and put in the will without her dads knowledge simply to hurt her.

Does the will being used as the 'original' leave the property to your older sister ?

[Amethyst]

If your signature was required for your sister to take this mortgage out against the house then the bank will have some data relating to you held ( even if just notes saying that your permission is required etc) so might still be worthwhile sending a SAR to them to see what comes out.

Otherwise again itll have to be a court order for the bank to release the documents from the transaction etc.

[Peridot]

Hi QueenGeek,

Just to reiterate what Amethyst said. The Probate Registry would never change, alter, redact or remove any part of a Will that has been provided in order to obtain a Grant. If it appears that there is no longer a gap where the vitriol was then either your father made a new Will unbeknownst to you or it has been amended resigned and witnessed in some way which is where your concern of course lies in who actually signed this Will.

An SAR to the mortgage company/bank may be worth a go although it will most likely require a Court Order as the mortgage isn't in you or your father's name and I don't believe the property is in your name or the executor's name either? Although it may have been transferred to the executors name and depending on the Will wording the executor could raise a mortgage although there would be hoops to jump through.

[QueenGeek]

The will from the probate site is a scan of the original ( well the one that was entered as being the original - but no, not edited by the court / probate office ) See https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help seems likely you will have to get a sealed copy depending how far this goes.

This page of nastiness to your little sister appears to have just been written by your older sister and put in the will without her dads knowledge simply to hurt her.

Does the will being used as the 'original' leave the property to your older sister ?

Many thanks, my Dad was a scientist and Mum was a Secretary - they were both very accurate - we were wondering how come they'd made an error in the calculations when it came to dividing up what the house was supposed to be worth. Eg it was valued at £140k but the amounts left to the beneficiaries only added up to £125k. But if the "amended" sums for my little sister and her kids were corrected as I believe they should have been then it does add up to the £140k. I believe my older sister was going to keep this additional £15k difference.

My older sister has claimed that my little sister had little contact with my parents, yet my little sister has shown me page after page of Facebook messages dating back years. My parents were aware of the hatred my older sister has for my little sister and appear to have kept the contact quiet. She has visited them at home, in the hospital and in the hospice on days when they made sure no-one else was around. I myself had a decent relationship with my little sister although she lived many miles away I would keep in touch via Facebook until I was too unwell. I'm honestly horrified that my parents felt they had to keep the contact a secret and I now wonder why they were so afraid of letting my older sister know they were in touch with the little sister.

It seems more and more likely that this page of nastiness was purely written for the sake of continuing to torture my little sister after my parents' deaths. She had questioned it as she believes some of the things that were written were not known to my parents. So the Will my older sister presented to us contained this passage of pure vitriol aimed at my little sister, whereas the one she presented to the court as "original" did not include it. (I'm still waiting on the copy of Mum's Will as that passage was just beyond belief). My little sister ended up needing psychological counselling after reading all this evil as she couldn't believe that they wrote such awful things about her. Now I can see that it was all my older sister's doing and I am staggered by her.

Also at the front of the Will it states their names and lists their children. There are only 2 listed. I think she's even taken my little sister's name out of this section.


The "Will" doesn't leave the property to my older sister. It says if it gets sold outside the family them we get the cash amounts mentioned. If it gets sold inside the family or retained by us then my older sister gets 55%, I get 25% and the other 20% is for the upkeep of the house (she wanted to make it into an AirBnB - I said no). She was never left anything solely on her own - I was always listed as the other main beneficiary which is why she asked me for the letter for the mortgage company to say she had no debts against the house - I also said no). She transferred the house into her name, raised a mortgage, bought a nightclub and not once was I ever asked to sign anything or confirm anything by any mortgage company or solicitor. I wondered if she had presented them with yet another altered Will that stated everything was left to her alone so she wouldn't have to get any other signatures.

Sorry for the long winded answer, but she has really screwed us all up.

ps I have sent a copy of the amended Wills to the contact in the Police Force who came to see us and took all the other information we'd gathered about this.

Many thanks for all your help.

Queen Geek

[QueenGeek]

If your signature was required for your sister to take this mortgage out against the house then the bank will have some data relating to you held ( even if just notes saying that your permission is required etc) so might still be worthwhile sending a SAR to them to see what comes out.

Otherwise again itll have to be a court order for the bank to release the documents from the transaction etc.

Thank you, I have an appointment on Monday with the solicitor and we will arrange for these requests to be sent to the mortgage company - it will help the Police matter progress further as well.

I just can't believe my older sister expects to just carry on as if nothing is wrong and she has acted appropriately.

Many thanks for taking the time to help me.

Queen Geek

[QueenGeek]

Hi QueenGeek,

Just to reiterate what Amethyst said. The Probate Registry would never change, alter, redact or remove any part of a Will that has been provided in order to obtain a Grant. If it appears that there is no longer a gap where the vitriol was then either your father made a new Will unbeknownst to you or it has been amended resigned and witnessed in some way which is where your concern of course lies in who actually signed this Will.

An SAR to the mortgage company/bank may be worth a go although it will most likely require a Court Order as the mortgage isn't in you or your father's name and I don't believe the property is in your name or the executor's name either? Although it may have been transferred to the executors name and depending on the Will wording the executor could raise a mortgage although there would be hoops to jump through.

The Will that I have is a photocopy of is the one my sister presented to me in the white envelopes as the proper Wills while we were sat making wreaths (so I know it was definitely after their deaths!) - the one she presented to Probate has the passage of vitriol removed. It was signed, dated and witnessed in the February before he died in the November. The one in Probate is dated exactly the same. She told us that the passage was blanked out at the request of my younger sister, but she had requested no such thing. Plus the passage was not just blanked out - it was completely removed & reprinted.

The property is in the Executor's name (still not sure how she was able to do this as I am the other primary beneficiary and surely I would have been asked?). As it is in her name she was able to raise a mortgage on it unhindered and instead of using it to pay out the beneficiaries, she just kept it all herself and bought herself a nightclub while probably stashing the other £100k raised. Of course, she is still to this day denying she has done this. There were apparently no hoops she had to jump through - she just did it without any questions being raised (but bear in mind she is a prolific and extremely convincing liar so she may have been able to talk her way out of anything). I wouldn't put it past her to go so far as to write up some sort of imaginary power of attorney type thing by saying I had been sectioned or some other nonsense as a way of omitting me from the proceedings. Many years ago I had to give her a little letter as I was too unwell to deal with anything and she contacted my utility companies on my behalf. She could have updated this and has an example of my own signature.

She told me herself she had to re-sign the Will as she couldn't line up the holes for the ribbon after she reprinted the page with the cash amounts on after changing them. She even told me how she did it and I think she even asked the witnesses to re-sign (but for the life of me I can't remember if that bit is true or if she just traced their signatures & details as well).

The solicitor will be asking for the mortgage details as well as taking her back to Probate Court to get her to show the accounts & inventory (she hasn't even bothered keeping records as she never imagined anyone would complain).

Thank you so much for all your help.

Queen Geek

[Amethyst]

You will likely want to check if she has a LPA over your affairs and remove her, assign someone else to hold an LPA for you if needed. https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney...er-of-attorney Possibly discuss with your solicitor too.

[Peridot]

Hi again,
The only person who can deal with the transfer of the property is the executor. It is irrelevant there are beneficiaries if it is being transferred to the 'trustee' (the executor if no trustee is named in the Will). To transfer the property to her sole name as if she had inherited the property would be more problematic as the Will is usually sent with the Transfer documents to HMLR.

It is not uncommon for executors to transfer a property to their names as trustees if for example the house was to be rented out for a period or significant works were needed to make it saleable but they are holding the property on trust for the beneficiaries not themselves and should be acting in the beneficiaries best interest not their own!

The executor is of course meant to be dealing with the estate in order to administer it and preserve any assets. As I mentioned depending on the wording of the Will they could raise mortgages and it would only require the executors signature (unless someone else was a co-owner).

You really need to get the lawyers involved. It is evident there has been some very strange dealings. It may mean that the whole of your parents estate will need unpicking and removal of your sister as the executor. This is not going to be easy for you I'm afraid. It may even mean the Will is thrown out and if no previous Will (that is evidently legitimate) is found then the intestacy rules may have to be followed.

We're here for support so do shout if need more guidance.

[QueenGeek]

Hi again,
The only person who can deal with the transfer of the property is the executor. It is irrelevant there are beneficiaries if it is being transferred to the 'trustee' (the executor if no trustee is named in the Will). To transfer the property to her sole name as if she had inherited the property would be more problematic as the Will is usually sent with the Transfer documents to HMLR.

It is not uncommon for executors to transfer a property to their names as trustees if for example the house was to be rented out for a period or significant works were needed to make it saleable but they are holding the property on trust for the beneficiaries not themselves and should be acting in the beneficiaries best interest not their own!

The executor is of course meant to be dealing with the estate in order to administer it and preserve any assets. As I mentioned depending on the wording of the Will they could raise mortgages and it would only require the executors signature (unless someone else was a co-owner).

You really need to get the lawyers involved. It is evident there has been some very strange dealings. It may mean that the whole of your parents estate will need unpicking and removal of your sister as the executor. This is not going to be easy for you I'm afraid. It may even mean the Will is thrown out and if no previous Will (that is evidently legitimate) is found then the intestacy rules may have to be followed.

We're here for support so do shout if need more guidance.

Hi, there is no Trustee in the Will - just her as the remaining Executor (my parents were each other's Executors as well as her).

The Land Registry deeds for the house show that it is registered in her name, I couldn't find anything online that would show me any documentation scanned in to support it. Would I be considered a co-owner as she was never left the property in her sole name.

If this Will gets thrown out as it has been changed, there is an older Will from 2010. However, she also wrote this Will up and on this she has been left 70% of the estate for some reason, therefore she would profit immensely from this Will being used, I think this one would also be considered tainted as she has done exactly the same things on it - written it, named as Executor, potential to profit greatly, ability to change it as she sees fit etc. It should also be noted that this Will has only surfaced since my little sister questioned the validity of the 2016 Will and my older sister provided her solicitor with a copy of this older Will to show her that if she questioned the 2016 Will then they would revert back to the 2010 Will and she would receive nothing as she was omitted. I believe this was more than likely altered as well in order to make my little sister quiet down and accept the terms of the new Will.

I wasn't even aware of the existence of this 2010 Will and I live round the corner from their house and would see them all the time. I presumed that they had written Wills in 2016 as my Dad had been diagnosed with cirrhosis and was terminally ill and wanted his affairs to be sorted.

The solicitor is gonna have to do a lot of work to unravel the mess that my sister has left in her wake, but she cannot be allowed to carry on doing this to her own family and other peoples' families (ps I looked up the Guild of Professional Will Writers of which she says she's a member - I could not find it, there are companies with similar names but not this exact one).

Many thanks

Queen Geek

[QueenGeek]

You will likely want to check if she has a LPA over your affairs and remove her, assign someone else to hold an LPA for you if needed. https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney...er-of-attorney Possibly discuss with your solicitor too.

Hi, I have let the utilities know that she is no longer to be allowed to talk to them on my behalf and I have mentioned to the DWP the issues I've been having (in case she tries to cause trouble there by stopping the ESA I am currently in receipt of).

All she has is that little single paragraph letter I sent, as far as I know she didn't fill out any official LPA forms (and I most certainly did not sign anything like that), she did suggest giving her my power of attorney when I was really unwell, but I refused as I did not trust her even then. It was one thing to let her talk to the utility companies on my behalf, something completely different to let her lose on my bank account and she kept trying to make me move in with her, rent/sell my own house and then take over her mortgage. I constantly refused to do that as I do not want to move and certainly do not want to take over the mortgage for her house (it turns out on the Land Registry that it isn't even in her own name so that's another dodgy thing she's cooked up).

I'll mention the LPA thing to the solicitor (I keep checking my driving licence details online in case she's been using my identity as we are close enough in age and appearance to pass on a stop check by the Police).

Many thanks

Queen Geek