Fair play

[NOCAB]

Hi everyone,

Another issue / question concerning probate and consistency in this case.

After losing both parents last year my brother became the executor. He is (in my opinion) taking a bias view point concerning most issues concerning the estate distribution of goods and money.

Please can I have some advise on the below;

My sister took my mothers jewellery without permission, although she is stating that she took these things with my Fathers permission after my mother died, and that he gave her this permission in April 2017.

My concern here is this. In April 2017, the executor is arguing that my Father was not of sound mind to make decisions in relation to some money that was transferred from his account to mine again in April 2017.

My point here is that now we are all not getting on, my brother and sister are using the position of my fathers mental capacity before he died to deny me a payment for money owing i.e. saying it must be returned to the estate or taken from my share, but not applying the same view point to my Father apparently giving my sister permission to take all of my Mums jewellery during the same time period.

Surely they can't have not both ways?

Either the payment to me (which had been previously discussed and agreed with Dad) was indeed valid, despite Dad being in hospital, or that the permission given was not valid and should be equally applied to any 'permission' given to take Mum's jewellery.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Kati]

Peridot ??

[Peridot]

Hi Robert Bacon,
I get where you're coming from. They can't have it both ways. However this is about 2 separate estates. The jewellery was to do with mother's estate the money is from father's? Is that correct? How much is the jewellery worth? Has mother's estate been dealt with as yet?

The fact father was in hospital is irrelevant, however his capacity issues are relevant.

A little more information on what happened in respect of mother's estate and how that was divided or whether everything was left to father (if she passed away first). If mother's estate went directly to father then jewellery etc would belong to him to dispose of as he wishes (provided he has capacity).

If you could give an indication of how the two estates are to be divided and what stage mother's estate was at it may help us give some pointers.

[NOCAB]

Hi Robert Bacon,
I get where you're coming from. They can't have it both ways. However this is about 2 separate estates. The jewellery was to do with mother's estate the money is from father's? Is that correct? How much is the jewellery worth? Has mother's estate been dealt with as yet?

The fact father was in hospital is irrelevant, however his capacity issues are relevant.

A little more information on what happened in respect of mother's estate and how that was divided or whether everything was left to father (if she passed away first). If mother's estate went directly to father then jewellery etc would belong to him to dispose of as he wishes (provided he has capacity).

If you could give an indication of how the two estates are to be divided and what stage mother's estate was at it may help us give some pointers.

Hi, we lost Mum first and her estate went to my Father. He had PD and dementia at the time funds were moved by my sister into my account (which I have stated can be returned to the estate aside from one which was money owing which I can prove), and this was at the same time my sister is claiming he said she could keep the jewellery i.e when he was deemed not of sound mind to allow funds to be transferred. Jewellery value approx £12,000 - £15,000.

[Peridot]

Hi Robert,

So effectively your mother's jewellery was by that stage your father's to dispose of as he wished and no longer your mother's estate. So as we said previously they can't have it both ways. Either the value of the jewellery is deducted from the sister's share if that is what they are proposing happens to the money you received or you drop hands? Whether that is an option I suppose this depends on the value they claim you received from your father in respect of money owing.
I would suggest the funds not included in the money owing sum may be better returned although equally this additional sum could be reflected in any distribution due to you too.

[NOCAB]

Yes i agree and would be happy if this were the case and things were straight forwards however;

1. money owing to me is just under £5000, the rest i am happy is taken from my share of the estate
2. Jewellery valuation has been requested and 3 valuations return A/B/C. A being the replacement cost for insurance purpose B being their actual value to purchaser and C being scrape. The executor is accepting C
3. However following the same principle (and despite both the executor and my sister seeing my father give me his signet ring when he was of sound mind) the executor has asked for valuations for this ring as well and despite 2 valuations being given, he is demanding the higher of the 2

Ps my sister, brother (executor) and I do not speak, and I am concerned that both the executor and his appointed solicitors, are not managing the estate fairly and equitably.

There are any other examples of the above, where a bias approach is being taken.

I am now being asked to sign a letter of indemnity on the basis that a large portion of estate funds can be distributed, and being 'arm twisted' to accept this situation above or my own expenses (I looked after my parents for many years despite living hundreds of miles away - fyi my sister lives in Oz and brother in Spain) will not be pain, including the cost for both wakes.

Equally very dubious estate accounts have been submitted by the executor for flight and hotel costs to visit the family home, yet his submissions are to Gatwick Airport/ Hotel despite the family home being in Cheshire. Despite challenging the appointed solicitors on this point and many others which are so obviously wrong, they simply state that 'our clients' accounts are fully justifiable, and 'fob me off'!!

There are so many issues with the handling of this matter, and I am really concerned at the legality of this process.

I have challenged the solicitors via their complaints department especially as the appointed solicitor has now accepted some mistakes, i.e. in accurate accounting, missing payments in the overall accounts which should have been allocated to me etc etc.

Can this matter be brought to the attention of the courts re failures on behave of the solicitors the executor and what happens if I don't sign the letter of indemnity?

Sorry if this is long winded but over time there have been so many aspects to the probate service which have been mis managed it is beyond belief

[Amethyst]

Peridot

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...r-of-indemnity

More to this re the indemnity on that thread.

[Peridot]

Hi Robert,
I think we've dealt with the indemnity form issues on the other thread.
As far as your complaint to the solicitors went, what action did they take? You stated they found some accounting errors and missed payments were these then dealt with?
Sorry I know you have said before but couldn't find the thread, who are the executors, your brother and sister? Is the solicitor a named executor or they were just instructed by the executors named on the Will?
When your siblings came over and stayed at Gatwick, was this due to the flight times and transfers to eventually get to Cheshire? Have you been refunded the funeral costs yet?
Have you suggested mediation or made an offer to settle this matter setting out all the discrepancies as you see them and your expenses etc?
As far as the indemnity is concerned is this to allow an initial payment to all of you in respect of the estate, retaining a sum until the other matters have been sorted out? Have the estate accounts been amended and have you received a revised copy?
Everyone needs to bear in mind the longer this carries on particularly with lawyers involved the higher their fees will be which will be deducted from the estate, reducing the available sums for distribution.
As others have suggested, I suspect the cost of chasing this may far outweigh the possible benefits, particularly with your siblings being overseas, but maybe a measured letter setting out the discrpancies and the issues you have over the valuations for example would be worthwhile? You need to keep factual with this and try and keep the passion out. I appreciate this is really tough but feelings don't help get the facts down unfortunately.
Apologies if you have already done this and the response has not been what you would expect. If that is the case have you spoken to any other lawyers yourself (bearing in mind the cost of doing so and the cost of pursuing matters through the courts).
I'm sure I mentioned before wills bring out the worst in family unfortunately at the worst time when you are trying to come to terms with losing those close to you.