Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

[Tools]

Received a call from a call centre earlier, and checked the number on Whocallsme.com


Here is what I have posted over there 001442030043198 - who calls me?


I do love winding up these call centres and I was in the mood for them tonight as they rang just as I walked in the house after work around8:30 tonight. I must have been on 1/2 an hour, so a few more on their call list will have been spared their crap.

Tools@legalbeagles.info - a few seconds ago
It is a call centre, i suspect in India.

They telephoned me offering the "new UK government incentive" that promises to cut my debt repayments. They claimed to be calling from "Debt Managers" in Leicester UK but obviously were not.

If a company cold calls you like this do NOT give out any personal details. If you have debt problems there are plenty of FREE self help forums such as the one I am involved with www.legalbeagles.info(moderators feel free to check/remove this link if it breaks any rules). We offer free assistance and template letters for you to manage your debts yourself.

Anyway, I decided to play along, after the woman asking me the total of my debts(I said £20k ;-) ) she asked if this was for credit cards,(I agreed). She then asked me how much my monthly payments were, (erm £200/month),and was I struggling to repay it(No)
She then informed me that they could cut my monthly payments by contacting my creditors and negotiating a lower monthly repayment(I asked if this would affect my credit rating)she hadn`t a clue and said she would pass me on to her `verifier`in the UK.

A man then asked me to confirm my first name as they only had my surname( how stupid do they think I am).
Me: Before I divulged that information I need to know how you have come by my surname and EX-DIRECTORY phone number.
Him: It was taken from a database passed to us by a company you must have had financial dealings with.
Me: I don`t think so, I never give permission for ANY company to divulge my personal data to ANY third parties.Can you confirm the company you work for
Him: Money Manager
Me: Could you give me the name and address for your Data Controller
Him: Regulations prevent me from doing so

I then continued to read him the relevant paragraphs from the Data Protection Act 1988..........silence........

Me: I will ask you again to give me the name and address of your company`s Data Controller
Him: I dont know
Me: You don`t know the address of the company you are working for?
Him: err no
Me: How do you find your way into work everyday?
Him: I erm erm dont know
Me: I want your name please
Him: Manesh
Me: And do you perchance have another name, a surname for example?
Him: Patel
Me: OK Manesh, I would like you to pass me onto your line manager
Him: There is only me available on the floor
Me: You are in charge?
Him: Yes
Me: And you dont know the address of where you work, who your Data Controller is?
Him: I cant give you that information
Me: Can you give me your telephone number?
Him: No
Me: So if you are ill and can`t make it into work you have no way of letting them know you won`t be in as you have galloping diarrhoea?
Him: I cant give you that information
Me: OK Manesh I will contact my telecoms provider and ask them to trace this call and they give me the number, I can then inform the Information Commissioner`s Office so they can investigate which company has sold on my personal data and included it onto a database that is being sold around the world
Him: Would you like me to remove your details from our database so you will not receive any future calls from our company?
Me: No thank you, I have recorded this telephone call and look forward to recording any future calls
Him: I have removed your information from our database
Me: I didn`t want you to
Him: I thought........
Me: No, you have just heard me say I do NOT want you to remove my details, can you put them back on please
Him: I can`t now I have deleted them
Me: Would you like me to give you them again so you can put them back on?
Him: I can`t do that
Me: Why not?
Him: Our systems do not allow us to
Me: That`s a bit crap isn`t it?
Him: I don`t know
Me: OK Manesh, thank you for calling me, it`s been lovely chatting to you we must do this again sometime, give my love to the wife and kids
Him: errr yes?
Me: So when are we going for that drink?
Him: Sorry?
Me: Love you lots, bye
Caller ID: none
Caller: Money Manager

[Amethyst]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

You are such a git.

Point well made.

[Curlyben]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

This isn't really a Debt Management company, but some dodgy selling of an IVA.

I've had a few of these over the last year and they always leave with their collective ears ringing.

[WendyB]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

just an idea...when I fill out forms online for insurance quotes and the like, whenre you have to put in a phone number,Ii always put 11 digits in the box, which may or may not bear some vague resemblance to my mobile number. As long as there's 11 digits, the requirement to fill the box is satified, but they haven't got my number to call me on and annoy me.

[Paule]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

What I did with Robinson Way, and others now, is to give them their fax number as my phone number.

It still amazes me that they dont actually realise, they obviously dont know their own fax number

[WendyB]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

What I did with Robinson Way, and others now, is to give them their fax number as my phone number.

It still amazes me that they dont actually realise, they obviously dont know their own fax number

BRILLIANT!!!

We should post that as a sticky in the Must Read section of the DCA forum

[TUTTSI]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

At 7:21am this morning I received a call on my mobile. The man said I am at your front door and you have not answered it, I have tried ringing your house phone and again you do not answer..........and I said you have just woken me up - who are you? He was very intimidating.

He said he was from our 2nd Mortgage Lender - Melbourne Mortgages. He wants to come in and speak to us as he said we are 2 months in arrears..

I told him that we do not speak to people who come round without having made a prior appointment. He said OK he can come back in 20 minutes and I told him that was not an acceptable time and in any event a cheque had been sent on Monday and Mr T had already spoken with them on Monday and I had previously spoken with them last week and told them that Mr T was having an operation and we would deal with the payment at the beginning of the following week which has been done.

Now I know this time is unaceptable to call on peeps and especially without having made a prior appointment. We have co-operated with these people so when Mr T gets himself together he is going to call Melbourne Mortgages to complain and ask why they sent someone round when he had spoken with them just on Monday and agreed that the payment would be sent and which was sent by cheque in the post which they should have received yesterday.

I expect they have to be licenced and this type of harrassment is totally unaceptable and therefore a complaint will be made as I have proof both on my mobile and the house phone the time which they called.

Is it the OFT and the FSA that we have to complain to!

xx

[Tools]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

It is the OFT Tuttsi, many people do not carry their complaints through and so the OFT are unaware of DCA's behaviour. Make the complaint formally in writing.

Have a read here http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...dit/oft664.pdf


I have quoted the relevant section for you, Section 8

Debt collection visits
2.11 Those visiting debtors must not act in an unclear or threatening manner.
2.12 Examples of unfair practices are:
a. not making the purpose of any proposed visit clear, for example, merely
stating that collectors or field agents will call is not sufficient
b. visiting a debtor when it is known they are vulnerable, for example, when
a doctor's certificate has been provided stating that the debtor is ill
c. continuing with a visit when it becomes apparent that the debtor is
distressed or otherwise vulnerable, for example, it becomes apparent that
the debtor has mental health problems
d. entering a property uninvited
e. not leaving a property when asked to
f. visiting or threatening to visit debtors without prior agreement when the
debt is deadlocked or disputed1
g. not giving adequate notice of the time and date of a visit2
h visiting debtors, unless requested, at inappropriate locations such as work
or hospital.
1 See, on page 10, the OFT's clarification of the context for paragraph 2.12f above.
2 See, on page 10 - 11, the OFT's clarification of the context for paragraph 2.12g above.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

Thanks Tools, I thought it may be the OFT.

I have since found out the debt collector is from the Lewis Group - they are based in Scotland, so does this make any difference. Having looked at the Lewis Group web site they belong to various organisations none of which seem to be regulated here in the UK. So how does that work!

I also thought I would make a formal complaint to the FSA re the lender as we already had an arrangment in place and they had totally ignored this fact. We had been in contact a couple of times during the past 7/10 days and sent a payment in accordance with our agreement with them which they received yesterday.

We also now have requested that they send to us a complete statement of account as they are saying that we owe a different figure to what we believe we owe. They do not send out regular statements. But as far as we are aware we have kept to the monthly arrangment untill this blip this last week.

[Sapphire]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

Hiya Tuttsi hun,

If you remember back a while I had a problem with a Debt Collector (from a particularly nasty DCA) decided to call at all hours, days of the week etc and Cetelco very kindly provided me with this letter to warn them off

Dear Sir/Madam

TAKE NOTICE

That any further visit to the above property post xxxxxxxxxxxxx 2008 by yourselves, your agents, or those otherwise acting on your behalf or upon your instructions, stating either verbally or in writing an intention, unlawfully or by force, or guile (and other than by express invitation) to attend or enter these premises will result in the arrest of the agent/person concerned for trespass.

I reserve the right to produce a copy of this Notice to the Court in any future proceedings.

Yours faithfully

I'm not sure if its relevant in your situation, but it might be worth thinking about. And below is what Cetelco posted as by way of explanation for me. Bless his cotton socks he's a love isn't he ?

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit you at your house without express permission such as the postman and people asking for directions etc. (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). You are entitled to revoke that license under English Common Law and if you then receive a visit, without your permission, they will be liable to you for damages for a tort of trespass. They would also be conspiring in a trespass if they sent someone to visit you.

The damages you could receive would be minimal but you could apply for and be granted an injunction against them which would mean that, should they visit you they would be in breach of a court order, all in all a much more serious offence.

Furthermore, they are acting in direct breach of OFT guidelines, as pointed out above and the OFT's published guidance on debt collection states that they will withdraw Consumer Credit Licences from firms who allegedly fail to comply with that guidance.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

Thanks Sapphy,

We sent the letter....and have already had a letter of apology. Their stance is that their debt collectors working hours are from 7am in the morning. I am sure that I once read somewhere that this breaks the code of conduct for DCA's.

They have not denied that the DCA acting on their behalf of Melbourne Mortgages came at 7:15am without an appointment and not at a time that they should be calling.

If anyone one knows who we can complain to on this and under what section of the act, we will respond to them, because they are not going to get away with it. They were tottaly out of order.

xx

[TUTTSI]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

anyone..............

[vince]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

I get many calls from debt management companies i just ask them if they read papers cos i won the lotto and they put fone down

[Tools]

Re: Unsolicited calls from debt management companies

Sorry Tuttsi I missed this one

You can complain to the OFT

I have copied this info from Debt Collection Harassment | Debt Advice | Payplan for you, hope it helps.

My creditors keep calling at work and late in the evening - are they allowed to do this and how would you advise I deal with it?

There are several laws which cover harassment of debtors by creditors as well as recognised guidelines which set out what is considered unreasonable behaviour by creditors.
The Administration of Justice Act 1970 S.40 makes it a Criminal Offence for a creditor or a creditor's agent (often a debt collection agency) to make demands (for money), which are aimed at causing “;alarm, distress or humiliation, because of their frequency or publicity or manner”. Equally, a creditor will be committing an offence if they falsely imply that non-payment of the debt will lead to criminal proceedings; or the creditor pretends to be someone they are not e.g. a court official or bailiff. It is also an offence to send a person a document which looks like it has been sent from a court.
If you feel you are subject to Debt Collection Harassment then this too could be classed as a criminal offence. Harassment can be verbal or in writing and would include making repeated calls to your workplace or in anti social hours. The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 makes it a Criminal Offence for any person to pursue a course of action “which they know, or ought to know, amounts to harassment of another person”.
The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has produced a set of Debt Collection and Debt Management Guidelines which sets out the types of debt collection practices which the OFT considers to be unfair. The guidelines do not apply to routine debt collection but are applicable to all accounts where payments have been missed, or are in arrears. The Guidelines include a section on 'contacting debtors at unreasonable times and intervals'. Whilst the guidance does not spell out the types/times of when contact should occur, it does provide a list of examples which it might consider unfair: repeatedly calling at unsociable hours, calling places of work, or calling on Neighbours and disclosing the reason they are making these enquiries.
If you think a creditor has broken the law or has breached these guidelines- you should first raise it with the creditor or collector concerned. To start this process you will need to gather evidence. The first step is to record the times and contents of visits and calls, and to save any threatening letters. You should then write a letter of complaint informing the creditor that you are aware of the Debt Collection Guidelines and believe they are in breach of these as well as possibly been in breach of section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act. Ask them to stop what they are doing. You must however, tell the creditor how you would prefer to be contacted. If the situation does not improve you can make a more formal complaint against a creditor.
If the creditor continues to harass then you can make a complaint to the local Trading Standards Department or go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau. If the problem does not get resolved you could send your complaint to the Office of Fair Trading - who do not usually take up individual cases but their Debt Collection Enforcement Team collects information from various sources and can use it to remove the creditors Consumer Credit Licence.
If the behaviour of the creditor (or any bailiffs or credit collection companies acting on behalf of the creditor) becomes at all violent or extremely threatening the Police should be informed immediately.