BT's dangerous suggestion.

[dogtired]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

As Puff knows, I have a similar problem and "had" to do the same.
No one asked if I was capable, or where the socket was, this is also bearing in mind that the socket itself is less than four years old as BT put in a combined ADSL and phone one then! Mine is under a window and behind my TV (electricity!) and I am very short sighted and only have periferal vision in my left eye!During one phone call one tech guy told me not to take risks though.

[brummie]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/d...N6YUg4bA%3D%3D

I pulled the link above straight off the bt website. It is clearly demonstrating the procedure for removing the faceplate.

I can see everybody's point and concerns about safety....

I agree with the fact that the average member of the public should not be asked to remove the face plate, as it does put them at risk of injury, by basically picking up a screwdriver. Also the risk of back injury from bending, possibly confined space and risk of cuts. I have just run a risk assesment on it and it scores 3, which is middle of the road.
The fact is that there is NO immediate risk of electric shock, and hence i beleive BT have come up with this crap. There is, however, a risk of exposure to the cables IF the second plate is removed, which then exposes the terminations. The voltage and current present would pose no immediate danger to the normal, healthy being, however i'm not too sure if people using electronic devices such as pace-makers would not be effected. If the second plate were to be removed and deemed to cause injury, BT would probably call an ace card and say that the removal was a "purposefull act", and that the individual was to fault.
The fact that BT are advertising this procedure openly says to me they have done their research, otherwise they would be exposing themselves to a manslaughter charge. They would have had to approach H.S.E. before going ahead with this, and it would be interesting to see what H.S.E. said about it.
Millitant i agree with you that this procedure should only be carried out by BT operatives. Maybe your freind could do some digging around and find out what drove them to come up with this?
All the ISP providers use this for fault finding. I have been asked to follow this procedure on a BT line when the ISP is sky...

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

exactly my point magrew, she wanted me to dismantle the WHOLE BOX.

She told me about the faceplate, then said if that doesnt work, i'll talk you through taking the box apart.. while sending a pulse down the line!!

then when i refused she said it would cost £99 for an engineer and my complaint was closed because I wouldnt dismantle the box... and i mean TOTALLY dismantle the box!

[miliitant]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

MY POSITION BEFORE I MOVED HIGHER UP THE UNION LADDER WAS THE AREA HEALTH AND SAFETY REP, EVEN THOUGH MY BRANCH WAS POSTAL, I REGULAR AS CLOCKWORK, ONCE A MONTH, HAD MEETINGS WITH MY BT COUNTERPART

the simple answer to this is open reach technicians are expected to do a certain amount of calls a day, each job has a time elemant attached to it. if they go over that time they have to go on a performance review (disciplinary)

to make it worse they have trackers in the van. they start work as soon as they leave home and restock the van when necessary

all open reach are interested inn are the installs, underground cable, business IT etc

simple answer is the fault service is not profitable enough to warrant an engineer due to the current lack of engineers. a lot of jobs within BT are now outsourced to private companies to do the dogsbody work. its cost effective rather than pay for an engineer 40 hours a week. royal mail are doing the same thing now with casual fixed term contract workers

remember people

YOU RENT THE LINE AND JUNCTION BOX IN YOUR HOME FROM BT
IT IS THEIR RESPONSABILITY IF A FAULT OCCURS AT EITHER THE LINE OR JUNCTION BOX
IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO FOLLOW THEIR ADVICE AND REMOVE THE FACE PLATE, THEN DEMAND AN ENGINEER COME OUT

if the fault is not their or through your not understanding how to connect a lead after being told

BT will charge you, i believe its £130

if their is a fault BT HAVE A LEGAL CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION TO FIX THE FAULT AT NO COST, OR BE IN BREACH OF CONTRACT

HOW CAN YOU EXPECT A DISABLED PERSON TO BEND DOWN AND REMOVE THE FACE PLATE FOR EXAMPLE, THIS WILL BE COVERED UNDER THE EQUALITIES ACT AND THE HSWA 1974 AS BT WILL HAVE A LEGAL RESPONSABILITY FOR YOUR HEALTH AND SAFETY

[brummie]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

This whole debate is pointing in one direction, in my opinion, the H.S.E.

Millitant, do you have access to H.S.E. directive and case-study? There would have been a detailed paper on this......

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

tried to find out what my line rental covers.

Ive basically been told I dont need to know, and I even joined the BT forums who told me the customer services dept were higher and more informed than the CEO's office.. gotta love it!!

[brummie]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

http://support.zen.co.uk/kb/Knowledg...rticleID=10828

tons of this on tinternet.....

[miliitant]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

This whole debate is pointing in one direction, in my opinion, the H.S.E.

Millitant, do you have access to H.S.E. directive and case-study? There would have been a detailed paper on this......

ill dig out my old contacts and see if i can covertly get the safe systems of work and risk assessments for this debate from the BT H&S AREA REP

[Magrew]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

Is no-one worried that this may leave the majority worse off. I sympathise with those that are not confident to take on this diagnostic step themselves and I agree that for those people BT should offer the attendance of an Engineer free of charge but if you progress down the HSE route we could all be sitting with a lot more disadvantage and disruption than we currently endure.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

TBH im more worried about the lack of options.

If you have mobility issues and you physically cannot do the self checks, you are still charged £100 for a service that you are already paying for!

[Magrew]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

TBH im more worried about the lack of options.

If you have mobility issues and you physically cannot do the self checks, you are still charged £100 for a service that you are already paying for!

Precisely, that is the argument you want to take up, not the HSE one, in my opinion.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

im doing both

I think its unsafe too.

I know it sounds stupid, but its the principle of the thing now. I know for someone with dexterity problems (like me) or someone with visual impairment it is an incredibly dodgy idea! and there is no get out. its Do it or else.

If you voice a concern you are told its perfectly safe and if you dont do it we wont help.

I am of the opinion that if more people reported this, and if more people complained than they would have to sit up and listen, and as they are telling people with certain conditions to do this as well... its against health and safety.

[labman]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

Just found this:

It's supposed to be straightforward. BT are responsible for everything to do with the phone line from the telephone exchange to the moment it enters the phone socket in your house. If anything goes wrong after that, whether to do with the wires or the phones, it's down to you.

Taken from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2009/10/bt.html

It's clearly not the first time this has caused an issue.

[Bill-K]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

Good point, Mr M. Much as we need the HSE to watch over us, we must be careful what we wish for !!!

Having checked out the link that Brummie provided, I have updated my own opinion on this. The newer BT sockets do indeed seem to be perfectly safe, if one simply needs to remove an outer panel to reveal a little-used test socket. It's the 2 screws that may be the problem, and a 'hinge and clip' arrangement might have been less intimidating. However, not all of us have this type of master socket, so - from a HSE angle - the BT call-centre monkey needs to ascertain which type of socket we have.

Dismantling an older type of BT master socket - or suggesting that we further dismantle one of the newer types seems unsafe to me.

In any event, I think it is important to clarify exactly what BT consider to be the full extent of their responsibility with regard to provision of a safe and fully-functional connection to the telephone network. Either BT don't understand this - or they are taking advantage of the fact that most of US don't understand it.

[labman]

Re: BT's dangerous suggestion.

Either BT don't understand this - or they are taking advantage of the fact that most of US don't understand it.

Now if you were a betting man ........ which would you choose?