standing charges

[des8]

Re: standing charges

Paragraph 1.3 below shows Ofgem's opinion of some 5 years ago:
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publi...y-licences.pdf
1.3. A deemed contract relationship will normally exist in circumstances where any type of customer moves in to new premises, and starts to consume gas and/or electricity, without
agreeing a contract with a supplier.

This is only an opinion, but follows other advice that as the tenant has not agreed to any terms, or been shown a contract, or been told that it was the supplier's intention to bind the tenant into legal relations, he is not liable to pay any money to the supplier.

[Johnboy007]

Re: standing charges

We are at the moment looking to rent an industrial unit for a new business venture in the terms of the lease in most that we have had details of it says the tenant is responsible for paying rates electricity gas insurance etc if we sign this lease stands to reason we are liable for not only paying for what we use but also standing charges

I agree up to a point Wales.
Yes you are liable for them charges but to who?
It has to be one of the companies that you have a contract with.
For example. In the case of the OP in this thread.
He doesn't want a gas supply.
He hasn't signed any contract.
He has not used any gas.
So any deemed contract is forced upon him by the supplier.
I do not think this would be lawful.
Let's for instance say the existing supply line is provided by Npower.
The existing tenant does not like Npower's prices.
So he contacts British Gas and signs a contract for a supply.
Who does he pay? Both of them?
You see how ludicrous this could be.
I am still of the opinion, that the supply should have been disconnected on the termination of any existing contract with the previous occupier.
I was a heating engineer for over 30 years, so I worked in the gas industry.
Often I attended an empty council property to cap off an open pipe that had been cut from the existing interior pipework.
Gas meters were removed by the gas supplier and the incoming pipes were capped.
Sometimes the meters were not removed and the outgoing pipe from the meter was capped by me or other operatives.
This was a requirement under the gas regulations.
And occurred because the old tenant never informed the supplier that they were leaving the property.
I have never heard of a tenant being held liable for any standing charges unless he used the gas since the termination readings of the meter.

[Johnboy007]

Re: standing charges

Paragraph 1.3 below shows Ofgem's opinion of some 5 years ago:
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publi...y-licences.pdf
1.3. A deemed contract relationship will normally exist in circumstances where any type of customer moves in to new premises, and starts to consume gas and/or electricity, without
agreeing a contract with a supplier.

This is only an opinion, but follows other advice that as the tenant has not agreed to any terms, or been shown a contract, or been told that it was the supplier's intention to bind the tenant into legal relations, he is not liable to pay any money to the supplier.

A very good answer Des, and I have to say that is my opinion too.

[Johnboy007]

Re: standing charges

As a follow up to posts #16 and #17, this is an extended copy of what Ofgem have stated.
1.3.
A deemed contract relationship will normally exist in circumstances where any type of customer moves in to new premises, and starts to consume gas and/or electricity, without agreeing a contract with a supplier. However, a deemed contract relationship may also arise in some circumstances where an existing contract comes to an end and the customer continues to consume gas and/or electricity.

1.5.
Ofgem recognises that there may be a lack of clarity on whether a deemed contract relationship exists in a situation where an existing contract has been terminated or has expired due to the passage of time. In order to help provide greater clarity on this issue, Ofgem has set out below a number of general principles.

1.6.
Whilst the general principles are intended to reflect Ofgem’s views on when a domestic or non domestic customer is likely to be subject to a deemed contract relationship with a supplier, we acknowledge that the precise legal position will depend on the individual circumstances of each case
5
. On this basis, Ofgem recognises that it may be necessary to carry out a case
By case assessment of whether a deemed contract exists before any potential enforcement action could be taken in relation to a breach of standard condition
7.3.
1.7.
Ofgem would also like to confirm that it considers that any terms of a contract which deal with what will happen in the event of termination and/or expiry will constitute principal terms for the purposes of the standard conditions of the gas and electricity supply licences
6
. For example, this means that suppliers will need to bring such terms to the attention of domestic customers and micro business consumers before they enter into a supply contract.


On this basis the OP McGinty, will not be liable for the standing order charges............