Gas company refusing to connect supply

[Seven Towers]

I have a serious problem with a gas supplier would appreciate some advice.

I am in the process of selling an apartment that has been empty for 2 years, prior to that I had it rented out. The tenant moved out of my apartment in January 2009, at which point I put the property on the market. I was aware that the gas supply had been disconnected but as the property was empty I was content to leave it that way. I believed that the tenant had paid the relevant bills. The tenant seemed to be a decent guy. looked after the property well and paid his rent on time.

The sale is just about to complete and I am helping the new purchaser to get a supply connected so that an up to date gas safe certificate can be issued. When I phoned the gas company they informed me that the tenant never registered and that there is a bill of over £500 outstanding. They are refusing to reconnect the supply unless this is paid and making it clear that they expect me to pay a bill run up by somebody else.

I am helping them to locate the tenant and am giving the gas company all of the information I have to help them trace the tenant .I don't know exactly where the tenant has gone but I believe that he is still local. I found his facebook page and sent him a message saying to contact the gas company. I don't have a phone number or forwarding address for him.

I can only find the electronic copy of the tenancy agreement, not the signed copy. However I do have the full records of housing benefit paid to me on the tenants behalf and the exact dates applicable. This is absolute proof of his occupancy during the period when the bill was run up.

Unfortunately the Gas company won't play ball, they are refusing to connect the supply until the ex tenants bill is sorted.

Anybody know what I can do next? My problem is that this particular company has a gas tank in the apartment complex and meters gas into the apartment. There is no other company that I can go to for a supply. Also, because it's LPG rather than natural gas, it does not come under the auspices of the General Consumer Council.

Any ideas how I can "force" them to connect the supply?

I also contacted the Consumer Council and they confirmed that this company does not fall under their remit and so they are powerless to help. However they are pursuing an almost identical situation with a regulated companyand have promised to keep me informed.

Basically the gas company know they are a monopoly, non-regulated,utility provider and I cannot sell the apartment without a gas supply (as the gas company were at pains to point out)

They are basically holding me to ransom and preventing the sale of my apartment completing

If I paid under duress would I be able to take them to the small claims court to retrieve my money?

Any ideas how I can "force" them to connect the supply? I live in N.Ireland

Any other tips? All advice gratefully appreciated!

[Caspar]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

Welcome to the site. The one over the road changes Beagles to Seagulls automatically!

I'll try and rally some troops to help, but am away in 30 mins time until Tuesday. If you don't have a resolution by then pm me here and I'll try to get someone to help.

Caspar

[Turboman]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

Hi Seven Towers & Welcome to Legal Beagles

Unfortunately your query is outside my experience and I didn't get anywhere with Google either

Some others will be along shortly no doubt

[seduraed]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

dont know if this is of any use but it seems suppliers must allow tank transfers CC forces LPG suppliers to provide a better deal | News | Heating and Ventilation News

[Seven Towers]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

Thanks for the advice so far guys, it's good to know there's help out there!

Still no progress from the gas company though

[enaid]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

Before the gas supply was cut off did the gas co not try and get payment from anyone?
Even if the account was not registered with the gas co by the tenant it must have been in someones name or I am sure they would not have supplied in the first place.

[Caspar]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

Hi Both,

Back early and shattered from too much driving. Whose name was the account in? As Enaid points out it has to be in somebody's name. If it's the tenants then we should be able to find a way forward. If it was in your name, you may have to pay it first, then take your tenant through the small claims court to get it back.

[Seven Towers]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

Thanks Guys,
Casper I can sympathise, I've driven nearly 700 miles in the last two days and have another 180 to drive in the morning - Vive La france!

The bill was not in anybody's name as it was fully paid up by the previous tenant and the the property was empty for a while, so the bill was just in the name of "The Occupier"

The gas company have now come back to me with a compromise agreement where they are now proposing to charge me only half of what the tenant used (generous of them huh?) but I am still refusing point blank to pay even a penny of somebody else's bill. I'll let you know of any more updates.

[Caspar]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

Thanks Guys,
Casper I can sympathise, I've driven nearly 700 miles in the last two days and have another 180 to drive in the morning - Vive La france!

The bill was not in anybody's name as it was fully paid up by the previous tenant and the the property was empty for a while, so the bill was just in the name of "The Occupier"

The gas company have now come back to me with a compromise agreement where they are now proposing to charge me only half of what the tenant used (generous of them huh?) but I am still refusing point blank to pay even a penny of somebody else's bill. I'll let you know of any more updates.

Forgive me - another long day, but I don't understand the above. In one sentence you say, "the bill was not in anybody's name as it was fully paid up by the previous tenant."

You then say, "The gas company.......are now proposing to charge me only half of what the tenant used."

I must be missing something stupid (not hard if you know me) but how can it be fully paid up, then they propose to charge you half of what the tenant used?

[Seven Towers]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

Forgive me - another long day, but I don't understand the above. In one sentence you say, "the bill was not in anybody's name as it was fully paid up by the previous tenant."

You then say, "The gas company.......are now proposing to charge me only half of what the tenant used."

I must be missing something stupid (not hard if you know me) but how can it be fully paid up, then they propose to charge you half of what the tenant used?

Sorry Casper - let me clarify;-

When I said the previous tenant I was referring to the previous previous tenant, i.e. a tenant who registered with the gas company and paid all their bills. So after the previous previous (good) tenant left they paid their bills and registered their disconnection with the gas company. Then the previous (bad) tenant moved in, never bothered registering with the gas conpany and ran up a huge bill.

So, the gas company are proposing to chqrge me half the bill of the previous (bad) tenant, who never paid their bill.

Apologies for theconfusion!

[leclerc]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

Sorry Casper - let me clarify;-

When I said the previous tenant I was referring to the previous previous tenant, i.e. a tenant who registered with the gas company and paid all their bills. So after the previous previous (good) tenant left they paid their bills and registered their disconnection with the gas company. Then the previous (bad) tenant moved in, never bothered registering with the gas conpany and ran up a huge bill.

So, the gas company are proposing to chqrge me half the bill of the previous (bad) tenant, who never paid their bill.

Apologies for theconfusion!

Do you have the details of the previous tenants current address, ie for forwarding mail, etc, etc,?

[Seven Towers]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

No, I did have an address but disposed of it some time ago as I had no reason to suspect anything was wrong; I passed on all of the information that I had about him including his facebook profile, a mobile number that was disconnected and a copy of his housing benefit payments.

[Seven Towers]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

SUCCESS!!!

They gave in and have agreed to reconnect the supply if I pay the reconnection charge. It just goes to show that when you stand up to these companies you can get a result!

Here`s a copy of the email correspondence for your information. I have deleted all personal and company references. Read from the bottom up;-

Hello ZZZZZZZZZ,
Thank you for the offer.


I can confirm that I am willing to accept the reconnection charge. Thank you for your offer of the reduced re-connection charge.However, I am in no way culpable for the charges incurred by XXXXXXXX and. on principle, as I have previously stated, I refuse to pay even one penny of somebody else's bill. I would also point out the following;

• I have given you evidence that the apartment was occupied by XXXXXXXX during the period when the large bill was incurred and you have acknowledged this.
• Company ZZZZZZZ did absolutely nothing about a substantial unpaid bill for over two years. With minimal effort you could have found my name (as the owner of the premises) by enquiring through the land registry. Even more simple - the apartment has been on the market since the tenants moved out. there is a large for sale board on the property. One simple google search would have given you the estate agents details who would have been happy to pass a message on to me.
• For over a year after XXXXXXXX left the apartment I would have had a forwarding address for him, the mobile numbers that I supplied you were current 2 years ago. Until recently I had no idea whatsoever that he had left outstanding bills. As previously stated he was otherwise an excellent tenant. I had no reason to retain his deposit, signed tenancy agreement or his contact details.
• Even though I have absolutely no responsibility for the charges incurred, I have given you all the assistance that I can to help you find XXXXXXXX. Had you contacted me, even a full year after the bill was incurred, I am confident that I could have helped you to successfully track down XXXXXXXXX

£245 is not a large sum to me and I would be able to pay it in a heartbeat. I have informed you that this is the last obstacle to me completing the sale of my apartment. However I will not allow CalCompany ZZZZZZZ to exploit this situation to attempt to foist a bill upon me, that has absolutely nothing to do with me.


Attempting to saddle me with somebody else's debt is illegal. The fact that Company ZZZZZZ failed to pursue their debt in a diligent or timely manner is not my problem.


Whilst LPG tank suppliers may lie outside the auspices of the consumer council there are other avenues to pursue companies who are acting in an unethical and potentially illegal manner. I will pursue this issue through consumer and legal channels for as long as it takes, even if it delays the sale of my property indefinitely or if I incur legal charges far in excess of your offer of £245.
[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']CULPABILITY WHATSOEVER for an unpaid bill between Company ZZZZZZZ and one of your consumers. As such I re-iterate that I will not be paying any part of XXXXXXXXX's bill.[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'][/font]
However I will continue to assist you by providing any information that I have to assist you to pursue XXXXXXXX for the outstanding amount owed to Calor Gas, even after we reach a settlement.


If you are willing to accept my offer of payment for the reconnection charge (£54.00) I will be pleased to arrange an immediate online payment.


Best Regards


Seven Towers





Subject: RE: Outstanding Bills for YYYYYYYYYY
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 11:25:25 +0000
From: ZZZZZZZZZZ
To: Seven Towers

.ExternalClass .ecxshape{;}.ExternalClass p.ecxMsoNormal, .ExternalClass li.ecxMsoNormal, .ExternalClass div.ecxMsoNormal{margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';}.ExternalClass a:link, .ExternalClass span.ecxMsoHyperlink{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}.ExternalClass a:visited, .ExternalClass span.ecxMsoHyperlinkFollowed{colorurple;text-decoration:underline;}.ExternalClass p{margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';}.ExternalClass p.ecxecxmsonormal, .ExternalClass li.ecxecxmsonormal, .ExternalClass div.ecxecxmsonormal{margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';}.ExternalClass p.ecxecxmsolistparagraph, .ExternalClass li.ecxecxmsolistparagraph, .ExternalClass div.ecxecxmsolistparagraph{margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';}.ExternalClass p.ecxecxmsochpdefault, .ExternalClass li.ecxecxmsochpdefault, .ExternalClass div.ecxecxmsochpdefault{margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';}.ExternalClass span.ecxecxmsohyperlink{;}.ExternalClass span.ecxecxmsohyperlinkfollowed{;}.ExternalClass span.ecxecxemailstyle18{;}.ExternalClass p.ecxecxmsonormal1, .ExternalClass li.ecxecxmsonormal1, .ExternalClass div.ecxecxmsonormal1{margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';}.ExternalClass span.ecxecxmsohyperlink1{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}.ExternalClass span.ecxecxmsohyperlinkfollowed1{colorurple;text-decoration:underline;}.ExternalClass p.ecxecxmsolistparagraph1, .ExternalClass li.ecxecxmsolistparagraph1, .ExternalClass div.ecxecxmsolistparagraph1{margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';}.ExternalClass span.ecxecxemailstyle181{font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D;}.ExternalClass p.ecxecxmsochpdefault1, .ExternalClass li.ecxecxmsochpdefault1, .ExternalClass div.ecxecxmsochpdefault1{margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';}.ExternalClass span.ecxEmailStyle30{font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1F497D;}.ExternalClass .ecxMsoChpDefault{font-size:10.0pt;}@page Section1{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;}.ExternalClass div.ecxSection1{page:Section1;}[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Good morning Seven Towers,
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']I have called the mobile numbers given, but they are both disconnected.[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Considering the circumstances we must reach a compromise regarding the balance to enable the gas to be reconnected and a safety certificate to be issued.[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']I suggest that the liability for the gas consumed while XXXXXXXXXX was in the premises should be split equally.[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']The gas consumed amounted to £490.86, and fifty percent would be £245.43.[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']The reconnection fee due to the engineer would normally be £90.00, but we are prepared to reduce the amount to £54.00 including VAT.[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Therefore the total amount due to yourself would be £299.83.[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Please contact me on 0??????????? to arrange payment and then I will contact the engineer to reconnect the supply urgently.[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Many thanks,[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']ZZZZZZZZZZ[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']From:[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] Seven Towers[/font][/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Sent: 15 January 2011 16:23[/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']To: ZZZZZZZZZZZ[/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Subject: RE: Outstanding Bills for YYYYYYYYYYYY[/font]


[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Hello again ZZZZZZZZZZZ,[/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']I was going through an old phone that I have at home and have found the number that I had for XXXXXXXXXX at the time of his tenancy. As this is more than 2 years ago he could well have changed his number but it is worth a try. I also found the number of his flatmate, who was called TWWWWWWW?????? and if you don't get XXXXXX on the number below WWWWWWW may be able to give you more details. To the best of my knowledge they were partners and split up acrimoniously so WWWWWWWW may be keen to help you find XXXXXXXXX.[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']XXXXXXXX 07???????????[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']WWWWWWWW 07??????????[/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'][FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'][/font] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Let me know how you get on.[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Cheers[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Seven Towers[/font]


[/font]
[/font][FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Hello again ZZZZZZZZ [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']I have searched all of my records and I do not have the signed copy of the tenancy agreement, nor do I have a telephone number or a forwarding address.


However I do have the housing executive records of housing benefit which is absolute proof of his occupancy during this period., I have attached a scanned copy to this email. I have also attached the facebook message that I sent him.


This is all that I can do to help you, I cannot give you documents or information that I do not have. I am still in disbelief that your company allowed an occupier to run up a bill of over £500.00 over 4 months and have done nothing about it for two years. However I will help you in any way I can to trace XXXXXXXXX as I consider trying to do another party out of a large sum of money as a despicable act.


I personally have an impeccable credit rating and have always paid all of my own bills in full and on time. I will NOT, under any circumstances, be paying a bill that has nothing to do with me.


I will give you a call to discuss where we go from here.


Best Regards

Seven Towers





Subject: RE: Outstanding Bills YYYYYYYY
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:54:44 +0000
From: ZZZZZZZZZZZZ
To:
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Seven Towers
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Good morning Seven Towers,[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Thank you for the information attached.[/font]

[/font]
[/font][FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']To enable me to pursue XXXXXXXXXX for the arrears accrued I require the following information.[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']1. [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']A signed tenancy agreement by Steven Scott.[/font][/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']2. [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']A contact telephone number preferably a mobile number.[/font][/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']3. [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']A forwarding address for correspondence.[/font][/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']I require a signed tenancy agreement to pursue XXXXXXXXX through the courts if the account is NOT paid. If the agreement is not signed, dated and acknowledged the judge will adjourn the case indefinitely.[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Unfortunately we cannot turn on the gas until the above is in place and we are able to pursue XXXXXXXX for the balance.[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Thank you for your help in this matter.[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Regards,[/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']ZZZZZZZZZZ[/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']From:[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] Seven Towers[/font][/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Sent: 11 January 2011 19:33[/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']To: ???????????[/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Subject: Outstanding Bills for YYYYYYYYYYY[/font]


[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Hello ZZZZZZZZZ,[/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Following our telephone conversation please find below relevant information;[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']The apartment at YYYYYYYY was occupied from 22/09/08 to 13/01/09 by XXXXXXXXXX, I have attached a copy of the tenancy agreement.[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']During this period his rent was part financed by Housing Benefit, I will be happy to supply you copies of the payment schedule as concrete proof of his occupancy during this period.[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']When he moved in I gave him instructions about contacting Company ZZZZZZ to get the account registered in his name. On termination of his tenancy I asked him to ensure that readings were taken of the gas and electric and that he settle any outstanding accounts. XXXXXXXXX appeared to be a good tenant, he looked after the property well and paid his rent in full. I had no reason to believe that any bills were outstanding.[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']In January 2009 I put the property on the market and it has been unoccupied ever since. I was aware that the gas supply was disconnected but as the property was vacant I had no reason to get it reconnected. I also had no reason to suspect the disconnection was anything other than routine practice. [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']The property has now been sold and the last outstanding issue is the requirement for a gas safety certificate, hence the requirement for the supply to be reconnected.[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']I was flabbergasted to learn that there was an outstanding bill from that period for over £500.00 and fully support your pursuit of this debt.[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']I do not have a phone number or forwarding address for XXXXXXXXX but I believe that he returned to his Mother's house in the ??????????? area. The following link is a newspaper article about him, including his picture;-[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']His facebook profile is;-[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']He is not a "friend" on my facebook profile, however, I would be willing to send him a facebook message as follows;[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Dear XXXXXX,[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'][/font][/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']"With reference to your tenancy of YYYYYYY from Sep 08 to January 09 I have been informed by ZZZZZZZZ that there an outstanding gas bill from the period of your tenancy. Could you please contact ??????? on 12345678 to discuss this and ensure that all matters are settled accordingly[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'][/font][/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Thanks[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'][/font][/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']AAAAAAA[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']."[/font][/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']I will call you tomorrow to discuss the situation and if there is anything further that I can do to help I will be happy to do so.[/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif'] [/font]

[FONT='Tahoma','sans-serif']Best Regards[/font]

[Caspar]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

Glad you got a good result at last!

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Gas company refusing to connect supply

cannot read there reply as it needs editing