Disagreement with Pozitive energy/Flint Bishop gas charges

[tesla6518]

When CNG went bust my friends restaurant gas account was transferred to Pozitive as supplier of last resort. He was with them for 30 days and paid the submitted bill £197 (still operating Covid 19 rules ) whilst the energy agent transferred to British Gas Light. some 2 years later a letter arrived from Flint Bishop saying £7000 was owed. The invoice provided was for a period of 6 days yet they claim it was for the whole period. We have taken the maximum gas usage of each piece of equipment as supplied in the manufacturers data. we have then worked out the usage of all the equipment at maximum rate ( would never happen in real time) for a period of 10 hours per day ( normal kitchen use 8 hrs, so have added overkill) and the gas usage still only comes to £1400. Previous CNG bills were £300 pm average and we took in to account Pozitive SOLR extortionate unit price.

So after mediation in which FB refused our repeated offer but made a £10,000 counter offer paid over 12 months. We are awaiting allocation. I have been trying to get information regarding the Actual meter readings that they are claiming as evidence of use, as no one had visited the restaurant to read the meter (non smart). I keep asking this question to no avail, however they have now said it was a C58 reading.
I have googled, asked OFGEM but no one seems to be able tp provide details of what this reading is. I have also consulted gas industry manuals but it still evades me.
So please can anyone advise me what a C58 meter reading is.


Many thanks

[echat11]

You should still be able to get information from CNG, the administrators.

You could use old bank statements to show that the monthly cost has always been approx £XXX.XX.

They can't argue against factual statements, they are 'harassing' for money that isn't owed.

Don't speak to them over the phone, everything in writing. Write a letter laying out the facts, make sure you get Proof of Postage.

[tesla6518]

Hi ECHAT11

Fortunately my friend kept all of his invoices from CNG unfortunately the majority are estimated, however saying that the Administrator sent a letter stating that £73 was still due, this we proved to have been paid, so have a reference for a meter reading. he also has a diary that shows the amount of customers that used the restaurant each day (50% of normal capacity due to retaining Covid19 rules).

We have stated to Flint Bishop all of the evidence we have, but to no avail. They keep harping on about they have Actual meter readings and they are correct. As said before they keep ignoring the question of How and when the actual meters were read to have these actual readings, but have only had this C58 method of meter reading.

I know that utility companies have a communications system that allows them to transfer data between each other (forgotten name at the moment but it is usually used for smart switching). However they need the clients permission to obtain this data. Well it would have been ok for Pozitive to obtain it from CNG as it was a switching but they are using a British Gas Light reading that was 10 months later. I have requested from BGL how this data was given to them without them having written permission (no contract ever signed with Pozitive) but they have stayed silent ( reminds me I must chase them up ). So now you can see why I am eager to find out what this elusive C58 meter reading is.

[echat11]

I don't know if anything in the link below can help you -

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/what-happen...ness-goes-bust

Business customers can complain to the Services Ombudsman Service, that is where to take the evidence

https://www.energyombudsman.org/

[tesla6518]

Many Thanks

[tesla6518]

Update: last week an order dated 19/12/24 was received, N24 changing the Court from Derby (Flint Bishop home court) to our home court. So hopefully we can get on with this and put to bed.

[echat11]

Work on the Witness Statement, show the 'inconsistency' in the 'billing' with the evidence you have etc.

https://hallellis.co.uk/preparing-witness-statements/

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...ess-statement/

[tesla6518]

Many Thanks ECHATT!

[tesla6518]

Echat1 thank you for your input, The case has been to court and a Judgement passed in my friends favour, Of course the solicitors agent made an application to appeal, but was refused. the time lime for appeal passed (checked with court if an application had been received).

The reason for this post is that you can win against these utility companies or their collection agents, if you are diligent, gather all of the information you can and put it all together in a well presented court bundle. Point to note here! do not expect to just send an email, check with the court how you send your bundle well in advance of the document due date. this link may help. https://www.judiciary.uk/general-gui...court-bundles/

[echat11]

Well done, thanks for updating.

[tesla6518]

Echat11. the saga continues, Flint Bishop lodged an objection to the company strike off ( solvent, retirement). the date of judgement was 1st April 2024, permission to appeal refused, 21 days to submit appeal to circuit judge 22nd April 2024.. 24th April 2024 email from court that no appeal had been lodged. We requested Flint Bishop remove the objection to the strike off. They have now come back saying that they will not remove the objection as an appeal has been made "the court sent the wrong document relating to the permission and had to await the correct version".
The solicitors agent was fully appraised by the judge regarding his refusal and that to further the appeal he would have to send representation to the circuit judge. Does CPR r.40.7(1) apply in this case and that they are actually out of time to appeal.

[echat11]

Echat11. the saga continues, Flint Bishop lodged an objection to the company strike off ( solvent, retirement). the date of judgement was 1st April 2024, permission to appeal refused, 21 days to submit appeal to circuit judge 22nd April 2024.. 24th April 2024 email from court that no appeal had been lodged. We requested Flint Bishop remove the objection to the strike off. They have now come back saying that they will not remove the objection as an appeal has been made "the court sent the wrong document relating to the permission and had to await the correct version".
The solicitors agent was fully appraised by the judge regarding his refusal and that to further the appeal he would have to send representation to the circuit judge. Does CPR r.40.7(1) apply in this case and that they are actually out of time to appeal.

If an appeal is filed out of time but there was a court error ('the court sent the wrong document relating to the permission and had to await the correct version'), the appeal court will likely consider the error and allow it, even if it's past the usual deadline. The court's can allow out-of-time appeals especially when there's a demonstrable court error.

[tesla6518]

ECHATT11 Subject: Case Update


I am writing to provide an update regarding the recent developments in the case with Flint Bishop. I was quite surprised to discover that their Senior Paralegals were unable to complete the court form N.164 the appellant’s notice adequately. Notably, they acknowledged the application was filed out of time by ticking the corresponding box. However, they failed to provide the necessary explanation in the designated section and neglected to request an extension of time—elements that should have been addressed as part of a standard procedure. Consequently, the circuit judge denied the appeal based on the timeliness of the submission and the lack of an extension request.
The appeal documentation presented did not articulate specific grounds for appeal beyond reiterating the appellant’s case. While it was mentioned that an appeal for an oral hearing could be pursued, it was emphasised that proper notice must be given to the respondent within seven (7) days. Given that this timeframe has now expired without any application being submitted, it appears that the matter is now resolved.

Thank you for your support throughout this process.

[echat11]

Well done, so pleased for you, glad it's been resolved.