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Deamed usage and back billing for charges over a year ago.

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  • Deamed usage and back billing for charges over a year ago.

    Hi, I very much hope you can help with a big problem with a water company I have run in to.



    Lived with my parent and looked after him as he was housebound, he had to go into hospital in Aug 17. he remained there until late october 18 and was then transferred to a council run care home for rehabilitation care with a view to returning home with a care package. The stay at the care home lasted longer than expected but returned home for 6 days in early March 18. he was ill and returned to hospital before returning again in later march 18, unfortunately this was a failed discharge and on the same day he had to be taken back into hospital. He remained in hospital for 3 months. I asked the council social services what was the plans for his care and they said it may be that he would return home if he did not get CHC funding or stay in the care home if he did. The CHC assessment was scheduled for late july but did not happen in fact until late Aug 18. he was awarded chc funding in late aug 18 and stayed there until his untimely passing. In late October 18 following proceedings at the court of protection a panel deputy took over his financial affairs. Just before this I went and was living abroad as it seemd likely that the deputies would sell his house and this was my best interest course of action in the circumstances. In January 19 the deputies told the water company that he had left the property in oct 17 and the water company back billed me for water charges. Bills i did not get until I returned to the property after my parent's passing in June 19.


    I raised a formal complaint with the and the water company demanded that I provide proof of residence elsewhere. I do not want the water company to have information concerning my whereabouts for this period. Raised the matter with CCwater and provided an insurance document from the deputies in which it stated that I would stay in the house for a few days at a time when I returned to the UK but for no longer than a week. the water company are refusing to accept this as proof that I was not living at the address. They have refused to acknowledge or even process my statements in terms of my mothers movements and claim that he was resident until he moved permanently into the 2nd care home. My position is that at best my mother ceased to live at the property in august 18 and that the insurance document from the deputies as evidence.


    I have learning disabilities and the water company are refusing to extend deadlines for continuing recovery action. From my parent's passing I am responsible for the water bills and have asked the water company to split the bills into two - the period in dispute and the period I have stated that I am responsible for so that the period I am responsible for can be dealt with and settled and not be affected by the disputed period. they refuse to do this and my position is that it is unreasonable and I will not make payment until they separate out things.


    CCwater have said they cannot challenge the water company without evidence that I was living elsewhere. I find it objectionable in extremis that the water company can act in this way and demand information they have no entitlement to on the basis of information from the deputies that is now contradicted by the insurance documents from the deputies. CCwater are not being helpful.


    Please advise on what to do. How much evidence do water companies have to have for deemed usage? with these facts does the water company have a case at all.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    I found it difficult to follow the story, from your writing - that may be my failing powers of comprehension, rather than your writing.

    Be that as it may, I do not see that mere occupation and consumption of water where you are neither the owner, tenant, or licensee, but are there via the permission of one of those classes, can give rise to any liability for payment of water charges. If that was the case, a visitor to someone's home would be liable for the cost of running a glass of water or his flushing of a toilet

    So the first question to be answered is: What was your status when you occupied the property?

    On the assumption that you were in fact, the owner, tenant, or licensee

    I suggest that you set the water company to it's proof that you were liable for any charges, and if so, on what dates that liability occurred. Further you require it to prepare a schedule showing the precise extent of your liability for that day.

    If it does not do that, then you prepare it, admitting liability for only those periods where you have no doubt you were liable and serve that on it.

    There is no rule of law that requires any corroboration of any statement made by a party to another, or indeed, to the court. - your periods abroad here, but it may be to your advantage to provide that corroboration, at some point.


    Last edited by efpom; 12th September 2019, 09:19:AM. Reason: or indeed, to the court.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by efpom View Post

      I found it difficult to follow the story, from your writing - that may be my failing powers of comprehension, rather than your writing.

      Be that as it may, I do not see that mere occupation and consumption of water where you are neither the owner, tenant, or licensee, but are there via the permission of one of those classes, can give rise to any liability for payment of water charges. If that was the case, a visitor to someone's home would be liable for the cost of running a glass of water or his flushing of a toilet
      above the 2nd date oct 18 was wrong i meant oct 17! May make sence with this info.

      Originally posted by efpom View Post

      So the first question to be answered is: What was your status when you occupied the property?
      None. Living with (and caring for partent). No formal right no contract no rent paid.

      Originally posted by efpom View Post

      On the assumption that you were in fact, the owner, tenant, or licensee
      So none. Did take legal advise on this and I had no rights whatsoever.

      Originally posted by efpom View Post

      I suggest that you set the water company to it's proof that you were liable for any charges, and if so, on what dates that liability occurred. Further you require it to prepare a schedule showing the precise extent of your liability for that day.
      Not quite sure what you mean by "set the water company to it's proof that you were liable" do you mean demand the evidence that I am liable from them.

      Originally posted by efpom View Post

      If it does not do that, then you prepare it, admitting liability for only those periods where you have no doubt you were liable and serve that on it.
      Again not sue that you mean by "server that on it"

      Originally posted by efpom View Post
      There is no rule of law that requires any corroboration of any statement made by a party to another, or indeed, to the court. - your periods abroad here, but it may be to your advantage to provide that corroboration, at some point.

      Thanks so much for your help looking forward to your further clarification.

      Comment


      • #4
        Most of your questions fall away because your only purpose in staying at the property, was to provide informal support to the person liable for the bill.

        If that is right you have no liability to pay the bill - you were not the "occupier"

        The estate of the deceased might have that liability, but, at least here, that is not your problem.

        The above would be your defence, in the event that the water company sues you for payment of the bill.

        The Legislation
        Water Industry Act 1991 gives water companies the power to levy charges on the 'occupier' of the property. Section 45 of the Flood and Management Act amends the Water Industry Act, inserting a new section 144c regarding the liability of payment for water and sewage charges.

        144C Non-owner occupiers

        (1)This section applies to residential premises which are occupied by one or more persons other than the owner (and not by the owner).

        Comment

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