Was this fraud?

[marleymouse]

Before his untimely death earlier this year my 85 year old father had been the victim of elderly financial abuse at the hands of his son and was trying to seek restitution. The details and thread of how this crime unfolded as it was happening can be read under this link
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4764044




which is where I sought & received a good deal of help and support as details of his awful & heart breaking journey gradually unfolded.


One of the many things that I have never been able to understand is why a telephone recording of my brother speaking to the bank posing as my dad to close down & receive shares of £20,000 was not treated as a crimiinal offence. It was a very long and involved conversation and was full of totally uneccessary lies even if my father had been agreeable to it taking place which dad fervently denied. The investigating police officer at the time said although they definitely know & can prove dad did not make the call they could not prove my father had not agreed to my brother making the call as people do this all the time.

Normally it is a straight forward process of going through a few security questions to allow someone to speak on a persons behalf but this was a totally different scenario. Please can anyone explain...after someone is actually proved to have posed as someone else to obtain money from a bank (with or without their permission) when does it become fraud or an offence?

Sadly all progress toward restitution automatically stopped when dad passed away as I don't think I have any rights to continue on his or even my own behalf but I really still need to understand some aspects of his case. My memories of dad are marred by recurring thoughts of the despair & injustice he went through x

[judgemental24]

Re: Was this fraud?

You will find that the police are no longer interested in financial crime

The police will not investigate instead leaving any investigation up to the financial institutions own fraud departments

[Celestine]

Re: Was this fraud?

If your brother posed as your father, the bank themselves should have investigated. The police will do nothing sadly.

Given your dad has passed away, I'm not sure what can be done now to properly investigate this? Im really sorry for your loss and the awful stress you and your dad went through in his final months. xxx

[marleymouse]

Re: Was this fraud?

So where does that leave people who have been wronged, my dad was left penniless through my brothers fraudulent actions? What is the point of having security procedures if when they are breached nothing is done?

As suggested here on the Legal Beagles forum, last year dad appealed to police and his MP wrote to the police on dads behalf appealing a review of his case but they still maintained not enough evidence to proceed with a criminal case as however obvious the evidence cases need to be without ANY element of doubt for criminal case to succeed. My brothers son works for the police and dad had initially complained to the investigating officer that this grandson had put emotional pressure on him not to take action - some sceptics have subsequently implied this may have influenced police lack of action.

Dads only hope was to sue so spoke to a solicitor but was unable to get 'no win no fee help' so saved some funds & paid them to write to the bank (under their advice) in the hope they may offer some voluntary goodwill recompense, the solicitors intended plan (depending on the banks response) was to later write to my brother in due course to try and initiate some offer to repay the money - sadly dad died before he heard any outcome from their approach to the bank.

Dad contacted press but not interested unless brother charged and dad was about complete the form to apply for pro bono when he suddenly fell ill & passed away leaving everything unresolved.

I just don't understand how people can get away with such terrible deeds with no consequences. Its seems especially bad that because someone dies the whole thing and everyones responsibilities just disappear.

[Celestine]

Re: Was this fraud?

Nor do I Marleymouse, that all sounds utterly horrific.

The government and press bang on about protecting the elderly and vulnerable, yet in practice nothing is ever done.
For example some of the nastiest phishing scams and frauds are perpetuated against the elderly who are less tech savvy.

I had a case last year where my client became critically ill as a direct result of a creditors action, this meant I was unable to push forward with the case via court as my client was in intensive care. It was the most frustrating thing I've ever encountered and it was only the threat of press involvement that motivated them to do the right thing. (eventually)

Where is your brother now? Is your mum alive and affected by this fraud?

((Hugs))

[marleymouse]

Re: Was this fraud?

Sadly my mother lost a long battle with cancer several years ago, they both worked so hard all their lives and never owed a penny in their lives. It was tragic that dads life savings (it was found to total £70,000 that my brother had transferred directly into his own account) was just taken from him & he was penniless, it made dad so ill, the worry destroyed him. Its sickening because all the paperwork and evidence collated during all the investigations is just sitting here.

My brother ignored all attempts by my father and myself to contact him by phone or in person since dad discovered the missing monies and when dad confronted him he said 'so prove it & sue me', from then on he has been uncontactable. He has given no explanation or excuse to date except telling the police he was given permission to take it. He made no enquiries about dad when he was dying and did not attend the funeral. To my knowledge he is still living alone in his own 4 bedroomed bungalow a few miles from me.

There was no money to even pay for dads funeral which was left up to me.

Thank you for the hug Celestine x

[marleymouse]

Re: Was this fraud?

Does anyone know if it might be possible for me to pursue this matter in court even though my father has passed away?
What evidence would be needed as the police & social services will have statements from dad?
The solicitor he approached would have proof of dads claims and intentions.

[wales01man]

Re: Was this fraud?

As it all stands now I would not think any court action would succeed the costs would be ridiculous that's maybe why no Solicitor will take it on with a no fee arrangement The Police and CPS would have no first hand witness to cross examine if it went to court and your brother denied it saying he was given permission.
Has the bank proven that all the security questions were answered this could be a way forward.

[marleymouse]

Re: Was this fraud?

Because dad lived with my brother for a short period after my mother died and dad sold his house all his mail went to my brothers house. When dad moved in with a friend he was not sure if it was permanent so continued to have his post sent to my brothers as it was very nearby and he saw him regularly. Dad was very capable but very unorganised so my brother wife helped him keep his papers organised. A man of habit Dad had little regular weekly expenditure so for years had regular D/D & standing orders from his current account dispersing his excess pension income into various savings & shares accounts, he didn't need to touch his savings and knew they were growing so never felt a need to check them. When my brother suggested dad let him do everything online to save paperwork dad had no idea this meant anything other than viewing statements on the computer he had no idea it would give his son actual access to touch anything. Dad has no idea of how to use a computer and no understanding of the internet so trusted his son thinking he was checking his statements as he had always done except on screen instead of on paper. My brother set it all up from his home computer, he set up passwords and took phone calls with no input from dad who had no idea what it entailed. Dad continued to pay for everything other than D/D & S/O by cash or cheque. The bank continually said dad must have GIVEN my brother the password etc. no-one seemed able to comprehend that this 85year man had no concept of online banking, they maintain they did everything required to allow online banking to be set up and they do not monitor online transfers, this is why nothing flagged up the irregular and suspicious transfers from an account that had never ever been used in this manner in over 40 years.

I believe my brothers initial intentions may have been legit but was in considerable debt himself so began to borrow and put back amounts and when it was so easy and went unnoticed by dad he took more and more that he couldn't pay back. This theory was born out by the pattern of transfers to his account & a bank clerk unofficially disclosed that my brothers account at the same bank was in serious trouble and some of the large transfers had gone on from his account to pay my brothers bank loans, overdrafts as well as finance companies.

There are lots of things that point toward slack procedures by the bank but it took time to realise they had appeared to be helpful but had excuses for everything, dad learnt the clerk who disclosed info about my brothers account was sacked. I believe it was in the banks interest to not assist dad more than they had to because the money was clearly used to pay towards some of my brothers debts to them. They refused to disclose anything to dad once the police became involved & as soon as the police disclosed they would not be pressing charges against my brother they did'nt need to help.

Sadly both dad and I were naive throughout, believing the truth, honesty & trusting the legal system would put this awful thing right...how wrong we were.

We discovered there was a charge against my brothers house by the bank too.

[marleymouse]

Re: Was this fraud?

My brother had clearly intercepted some of dads mail for a long which is why my dads suspicions were not raised.