What offence is this? (theft)

[Gegs]

Hi all,

I think I have been the victim of a scam.
Can anyone please tell me what offence this is...
The buyer has multiple websites offering to buy goods. I want to sell some goods and so after seeing the buyer's website in a google search I contact the buyer re selling my goods. The buyer comes to view my goods, agrees a price (£300), removes the goods, and promises to pay by bank transfer which will arrive within 3 days. After more than 3 days no payment is received and the buyer offers feeble excuses. On its own I think this would just be a civil matter about a debt owed but after looking on Google I have seen that the buyer has done this numerous times before ie it is an ongoing scam - does this become some kind of criminal offence, and if so what? (Such as something like what used to be called "obtaining property by deception"?)

I know the names, addresses, and mobile phone numbers of the two scammers involved. I have the vehicle registration of the vehicle that came to my address (although I suppose that could be hired). I have two texts on my phone from one scammer re collection of the goods and the payment. I have web links where about 20 people have reported the same guy doing the same scam (although the reporters call themselves things like "Dave" and do not seem to be contactable). Would the police would be interested in this?
Thanks...

[Amethyst]

Re: What offence is this? (theft)

Theft. basically. Have you spoken to the police?

Is he pretending to be a business ? What kind of goods are we talking about ? Trading standards may also take an interest if he is a business.

And never let someone walk off with your stuff on a promise to pay by bank transfer.

[judgemental24]

Re: What offence is this? (theft)

This is a variation of that Ebay scam where they get someone to pick up the goods

I would be more concerned he has your bank details for the bank transfer


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/section/2

[Gegs]

Re: What offence is this? (theft)

Thanks for replies. [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] Yes I realise now I was suckered and am kicking myself! I have not contacted the police yet - I want to check the legal situation first. I think technically it would be fraud rather than "theft" because I allowed him to take the goods (old car) away. [MENTION=70489]judgemental24[/MENTION] yes it looks like

Fraud by false representation


(1)A person is in breach of this section if he—


(a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and


(b)intends, by making the representation—


(i)to make a gain for himself or another...

Where the false representation (aka lie) was "we will transfer the money in three days".

The tricky thing though will be proving that this is a criminal offence rather than a civil matter of debt. Anyway I think I will report it here:
http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report_fraud

By the way I wonder what legal powers there are to shut down websites. It is annoying that there are numerous complaints of fraud against these guys and they are still allowed to gain more victims by publishing websites presenting themselves as a respectable business. So far I have seen about 7 or 8 websites showing the names / addresses etc of these two scammers at http://whois.domaintools.com

[oldbadger]

Re: What offence is this? (theft)

Thanks for replies. @Amethyst Yes I realise now I was suckered and am kicking myself! I have not contacted the police yet - I want to check the legal situation first. I think technically it would be fraud rather than "theft" because I allowed him to take the goods (old car) away. @judgemental24 yes it looks like



Where the false representation (aka lie) was "we will transfer the money in three days".

The tricky thing though will be proving that this is a criminal offence rather than a civil matter of debt. Anyway I think I will report it here:
http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report_fraud

By the way I wonder what legal powers there are to shut down websites. It is annoying that there are numerous complaints of fraud against these guys and they are still allowed to gain more victims by publishing websites presenting themselves as a respectable business. So far I have seen about 7 or 8 websites showing the names / addresses etc of these two scammers at http://whois.domaintools.com

Section 15 Theft Act, 1968.............
basically, a person is guilty of Theft by deception if he dishonestly, by any deception, obtains property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other person of it.

Please don't wander about the internet, perusing the various police and crime websites. Please go to your local Police Station and report a theft. Then you will have the chance to speak to a constable, and possibly a detective constable. Write down a brief record of the facts of the incident, getting all the instances in their right order of time.

Then, if the constable feels that the incident is a criminal offence he/she will look after your interests, take a full statement and get the investigation going..... but first you must decide to pursue it, and support the police in any action that they decide to take.

If the constable says 'no, it's civil'.... at least you know .....

[Gegs]

Re: What offence is this? (theft)

If the constable says 'no, it's civil'.... at least you know .....

[MENTION=72446]oldbadger[/MENTION], judgemental24's link above on the definition of fraud was all I was looking for so I am not researching any more. Assuming the other reports about these scammers are true I am now 100% sure this is a fraud (not simply a civil matter) so it is more a question of what can be proved and how much the police are willing and able to do given that their resources are limited and that this is not the most serious of cases. http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report_fraud are fraud specialists so I will try reporting it there first...

[nemesis45]

Re: What offence is this? (theft)

Border line Theft/ or Civil more chance of result making a small claim in the County Court in my opinion.

nem

[Berniethebolt]

Re: What offence is this? (theft)

Personally I think this should be reported to the police as this guy needs stopping. There is nothing from stopping you making a civil claim as well

[judgemental24]

Re: What offence is this? (theft)

It looks like this chap is a right crook. Even if you do a successful civil claim there is no guarantee you will see a penny

The judge might make a compensation order if he is convicted in a criminal court, but again, no guarantees

[Amethyst]

Re: What offence is this? (theft)

Action Fraud are a little bit mis-named - they basically compile the info and pass it on to various police forces/enforcement agencies - so yes report it to them, as it helps overall, but go to the 'normal' police to report a crime too to help with your specific issue.