Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

[Gorang]

Hi all

I hope someone can point me in the correct direction of what I can do now

I look on Ebay and click on "UK sales ONLY" for 2 outdoor cameras, find a listing that says location Hayes in UK

I buy 2 cameras on 10/09/13 (costing £99.99 each) everything going fine until 1 camera failed with water getting into the lens 2 1/2 weeks ago (the IP54 seal has failed which should be covered by warranty)

I then look at the instructions and the warranty cards that came with them
Warranty cards state

"Warrants your product to be free from defects in material and workman ship for a period of (MM/DD/YY) from the original date of purchase. If you discover a defect in a product covered by this warranty, we will repair at our option using new or refurbished components, or if repair is not possible, replace them"

But there is NO company name or address to send them back to for a warranty repair

I was on the phone to Paypal on 20/11/13 about another issue at the time so I mention this issue with this camera's and the guy said he would open a case and ask the seller to contact me, which he did, and in the mean time I had to contact the seller myself, which I did

Paypal then CLOSE the case and state they can do nothing as it is over the 45days

Anyway, 4 emails from me and 2 replies from the seller later and they STILL won't give me an address to send the camera's back to
Their replies

Really sorry for the camera problem, our hunting camera is IP54 Waterproof lever, your problem is possibly caused by accidentally Soak into the water or the shell is no locked, psl try to try the lens first to check whether it will be work well. many thanks. If you purchase a new one, we can try our best to offer you 10% discount.

Your highly cooperation will be much appreciated.

and

Thank you for getting back to us so promptly.

Sorry, but would you please confirm how the water are allowed get into the lens?
many thanks.
Have a nice day!

During the emails (and I think the 1st paypal guy confirmed but I can't say for sure) I sus out that the seller is infact in china NOT the UK

I phoned Ebay today and they say contact paypal and dispute the case being closed, and if that didn't work contact consumer rights

I phone paypal and they say we can only legally go back 45 days so contact your bank as they can go back 6 months to get your money back

I phone my bank and they say as paypal took the money from my account via a Direct debit and they used my bank account number to request the money for the DD instead of using my debit card number (which is a visa debit and has card protection) so there is NOT the same protection for getting my money back, so they can refund me then request the money from paypal BUT if paypal don't agree (which thy won't) then the bank will take the money back from me again

I phoned the consumer rights number Ebay gave me and they say there is NOTHING I can do except contact trading standards, BUT as there is NO trading standards in china then they will be able to do NOTHING

I phoned paypal back again explained I clicked UK sales only and bank and ebay can't do nothing so its down to paypal, they said the seller is NOT breaking any laws or Ebay policies as if they have a UK based distributor then it matters not where the actual items are coming from so only thing they can do now is contact the seller and ASK them to contact me again

I am getting NOWHERE with any of this lot, Seller, Ebay, Paypal, Bank NOR Consumer Rights

My question

WHERE/WHAT do I go/do now???????

I hope someone can help me with this as all I want is either the camera repaired or replaced OR my money back for it

[Tools]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

These 51buyworld ?

[Gorang]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

No not them

This lot
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/easybuying168

[Gorang]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

On this listing

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1907990821...84.m1423.l2649

[Tools]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

Contact details
Globalegrow

jiadong xu
ZTE Industrial City,Chuangye Road,Nanshan District
518054 Shenzhen, 广东省
中國


Phone86)75522678359-809
Email:easybuying68@gmail.com

1.Our items come with three-year warranty.
2.Our warranty does not extended to any products that are physically damaged or that are not under normal operating conditions as a result of misuse or improper installation on the buyer/user's part.
3.This product comes with 30-Day Money Back Guarantee.
4.We stand behind every product we sell. If you're not pleased with your purchase, we'll be happy to make an exchange or refund.
5.For all returned products, please contact us for the returning address.

Seems to me that if the item has developed a fault then the supplier should stand a repair/replacement minus shipping costs. Yes I know it`s in China, but with a delivery time of 1 day they must surely have a stock in the UK.

I have asked questions posing as a buyer and let you know their response.

[des8]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

Sorry, but you are learning the hard way that Feebay & Paypal are only there for themselves.
Have a look at some of the posts on eBay community and you'll find similar posts.
.

[Gorang]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

Seems to me that if the item has developed a fault then the supplier should stand a repair/replacement minus shipping costs. Yes I know it`s in China, but with a delivery time of 1 day they must surely have a stock in the UK.

I have asked questions posing as a buyer and let you know their response.

Tools your a star

WELL DONE and THANK YOU

but with a delivery time of 1 day they must surely have a stock in the UK.

They do say in the listing they are in hayes in the UK

I did a google for easybuying168 hayes but got up nothing except hotels

BUT

I have just done a google for globalegrow hayes as per the info you have found out above, and I have got this
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/global-egrow

Now what concerns me is the flag at the top

Active - Proposal to Strike off (when checked on 24 Nov 2013)

would this mean they are about to be shut down???

I am wondering about a LBA sent to the hayes address but I duno if it will be even worth the postage as it says

THE MERIDIAN 4 COPTHALL HOUSE
STATION SQUARE
COVENTRY
WEST MIDLANDS
ENGLAND
CV1 2FL
(2,249 companies also use this postcode, this is probably a mail forwarding service address)

[VF700fen]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

1. How long did it take for the item to arrive?
2. Was it actually posted from the Hayes, UK location or did it come from China?

If it came from China you can report the seller for false location.

The company has a UK VAT number:GB152909893 - perhaps the gentle persuasion of the fact that they won't provide you with the manufacturer's detail, leads you to believe that the item may be an imported fake and that Customs and Excise may be interested in investigating the rest of their stock would be enough to prompt them to do the right thing.

Feedback history is crappy with 115 negative feedbacks in the last year, consisting of people with the same sort of problem as yourself. Only worked once or twice, did not arrive, fake items....

[Gorang]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

Sorry, but you are learning the hard way that Feebay & Paypal are only there for themselves.
Have a look at some of the posts on eBay community and you'll find similar posts.
.

Looks like I am Des but I am going to exhaust all avenues to see if we can do ANYTHING as this needs stopped and Ebay and paypal are NOT too big to take on

Ebay will be the next ones on my hit list as they are the ones that allow companies like this to APPEAR as tho they are in the UK when in fact they are NOT (false advertising and deception comes to mind) and ebay knows they are not as ebay has to have their details, same as any seller.

As the companies can't honour their warranty's within a reasonable time (or even at all) as they are based outside the UK and they make it appear that they are in the UK to obtain the sale in the first place then Ebay should be taking responsibility for allowing this to happen in the first place IMO

Is making a false representation not, fraud or obtaining money by deception??

The Latter I am tending on, as Ebay is making money from the sale and it can easily be proved that the sale would not of happened if the buyer had known the company is actually in china and it can be proved that ebay KNOWS the seller is NOT in the UK and it can be proved that Ebay are ALLOWING the seller to falsely appear as though they are in the UK

[VF700fen]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

Another thought - was your paypal payment made from cleared paypal funds or did you have to pull funding in from your bank account via a credit/debit card. If the latter then you could be able to try the chargeback route via your bank.

[Gorang]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

1. How long did it take for the item to arrive?
2. Was it actually posted from the Hayes, UK location or did it come from China?

I think it was only a couple of days
yes I do think it had been sent up from (poss a warehouse in) hayes

but from what I found about the address in hayes I am thinking it could be a big warehouse poss being used as a drop shipping location maybe as could poss explain this

(2,249 companies also use this postcode, this is probably a mail forwarding service address)

The company has a UK VAT number:GB152909893 - perhaps the gentle persuasion of the fact that they won't provide you with the manufacturer's detail, leads you to believe that the item may be an imported fake and that Customs and Excise may be interested in investigating the rest of their stock would be enough to prompt them to do the right thing.

More digging required here I think as I suspect that the VAT number will belong to the manufacturer, ie. Chinese manufacturer sets up branch in uk with a different name prob so they can ship to and distribute from UK so that they have the appearance of being a UK based company

If that make sense

And if I am right with the above then all mail will be forwarded to china

Defo more digging required I think

[Gorang]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

Another thought - was your paypal payment made from cleared paypal funds or did you have to pull funding in from your bank account via a credit/debit card. If the latter then you could be able to try the chargeback route via your bank.

Been down that route and NO joy as Paypal have taken the money via Direct debit using my bank account details so bank says

I phone my bank and they say as paypal took the money from my account via a Direct debit and they used my bank account number to request the money for the DD instead of using my debit card number (which is a visa debit and has card protection) so there is NOT the same protection for getting my money back, so they can refund me then request the money from paypal BUT if paypal don't agree (which thy won't) then the bank will take the money back from me again

If Paypal had taken the money via Direct debit via my debit card number then yes the bank could of reclaimed my money as that has the visa on it

Personally I DON'T see the difference, so I don't see why the bank can't reclaim it based on how the money was requested, probably insurance but I don't know

[VF700fen]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

VAT Registration Number comes up as correct

GB152909893 - GB registered company

So if this crowd have a GB Vat No then they must be filing VAT returns and therefore subject to UK law irrespective of where the company owners originate.

- Exerpt from search of companies house

Company Details

Name & Registered Office: GLOBAL EGROW LIMITED THE MERIDIAN 4 COPTHALL HOUSE STATION SQUARE COVENTRY WEST MIDLANDS ENGLAND CV1 2FL Company No. 08146373

Status: Active - Proposal to Strike off Date of Incorporation: 17/07/2012 Country of Origin: United Kingdom Company Type: Private Limited Company Nature of Business (SIC): None Supplied Accounting Reference Date: 31/07 Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED) Next Accounts Due: 17/04/2014 Last Return Made Up To: Next Return Due: 14/08/2013 OVERDUE Mortgage: Number of charges: ( 0 outstanding / 0 satisfied / 0 part satisfied ) Previous Names: No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years. UK Establishment Details There are no UK Establishments associated with this company. Oversea Company Info There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.

Both directors are registered to addresses in China, one with the Global EGrow Shenzen address and the other also a Shenzen address which therefore makes the Overseas company info a bit suspect. I think perhaps Customs and Excise would be interested.

It is possible that you may not get your money back (forget EBay and Paypal - they don't give a toss about who sells on their site - not until someone like Private Eye highlights their shortcomings) but you may get the satisfaction of shafting them

[Tools]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

Received this back this morning, not sure if it will help you

Dear Jules,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Yep, our head office in china,but we have warehouse in UK, the stuff will be shipped from UK warehouse. While you get the camera, if there is any quality problem or usage problem, you can get back to us, we will try our best to resolve it asap, many thanks

Please feel free to contact us first if you have any question.

Have a nice day!

Best regards,

Nancy
Easybuying168

[Gorang]

Re: Ebay and Paypal sloped shoulders

Thanks Guys


Well I phoned the consumer advise number (which ebay gave me) again just now

and their advice is now, to send one of their sample letters of complaint to that Coventry address then once I don't get a reply, phone them again and they will advise of the next step to take

so the following convo then took place

me "so you want me to send a LBA first then when they DON'T reply my next step will be file a claim with the courts"

her "yes"

me " well that will be fine, but what happens when I get a win by default when they don't acknowledge or defend the claim, how do I then get my money for the camera and also all the money for the claim fees and postage costs from doing all this, since the company directors are in china"

her "I can't give court procedural advice"

me " So basically I am going to lose even MORE money by bringing an action, and EVEN if I win, I have no chance of getting any of it back"

her "Like I said I can't give court procedural advise, but do start with the letter of complaint and if they don't reply or don't adhere to what you have asked of them, then just phone us again and we will advise of your next step"

me "ok thank you, Bye"


Has got me thinking a bit tho,

if they do have a warehouse in hayes
and if I did win a claim

Could I send bailiffs into that warehouse to seize goods???
and if I can do this will I end up out of pocket in any way???