Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

[righty]

Re: Barclays and vehicle scam via ebay and gumtree

I transferred the money on the second of October , the amazing thing is " Alice " keeps e mailing me !!!! The cheek of it !!!! I'm fuming at the apathy if the banks involved this is criminal activity that is being condoned ? , the car I thought I was buying was a jeep Cherokee , when the ad was still up on gumtree I contacted the seller who was the " genuine " seller his ad had been hacked

How soon after payment did you realize it was a scam AND when did you notify your bank??

[Guest]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

This is why I believe that account opening procedures have become lax as it would make no sense to follow this strategy whilst blocking account opening staff from providing the account numbers upon which the strategy depended.

Have you seen this?

http://www.replaceyourdocs.co.uk/

[nutsonmercs]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

Can't believe there is no protection against being ripped off by these scams. I would agree that getting any justice is an up hill struggle. Not sure how the scam works but sounds like its a well rehearsed one. I feel for you as that is a lot of money hope you get it back but I know it will be stressful and frustrating. I bet they don't use the same name each time.

I'm sorry and I know it will sound harsh but there is no protection against peoples own stupidity. The banks are blamed for allowing these fraudsters to open accounts but lets remember that they are in the most part, highly organized and sophisticated criminal gangs (the fraudsters, not the banks, at least not all of them!). As a buyer, the onus is upon you to make all the necessary checks before you pay for something. Just imagine how easy it would be for these gangs to scam themselves if it was solely the banks responsibility to make sure everything was Kosher and they had to pay out for each and every claim. On Ebay, most of the time the sellers have zero feedback and have been members for a very short period. If you look at their other items for sale they invariably have multiple listings of similar items. Do you really expect people to have 15 motorbikes, 12 camper vans, bulldozers, tractors and cars. If they have feedback study it! Have they sold similar items lately? Have they given any contact details or do they want your phone number? As they say, a fool and his money are easily parted. The items being sold are most of the time at a bargain price and they rely on peoples greed. There is an old Latin saying, hundreds if not thousands of years old. Caveat Emptor.

[Amethyst]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

I'm sorry and I know it will sound harsh but there is no protection against peoples own stupidity. The banks are blamed for allowing these fraudsters to open accounts but lets remember that they are in the most part, highly organized and sophisticated criminal gangs (the fraudsters, not the banks, at least not all of them!). As a buyer, the onus is upon you to make all the necessary checks before you pay for something. Just imagine how easy it would be for these gangs to scam themselves if it was solely the banks responsibility to make sure everything was Kosher and they had to pay out for each and every claim. On Ebay, most of the time the sellers have zero feedback and have been members for a very short period. If you look at their other items for sale they invariably have multiple listings of similar items. Do you really expect people to have 15 motorbikes, 12 camper vans, bulldozers, tractors and cars. If they have feedback study it! Have they sold similar items lately? Have they given any contact details or do they want your phone number? As they say, a fool and his money are easily parted. The items being sold are most of the time at a bargain price and they rely on peoples greed. There is an old Latin saying, hundreds if not thousands of years old. Caveat Emptor.

It's absolutely fine, we've had this discussion quite a few times, on this thread.

Speaking to the scammer on the phone, on what appears to be a local (to where they say they live) number is very convincing. They quite often aren't on empty/new accounts or accounts with bad feedback, but often on hacked accounts with very good, genuine feedback over a long period. The sellers with multiple vehicles are often putting themselves out as traders.

They have very convincing stories (if you don't know and haven't already seen the convincing story 100 times) as to why the vehicle is so cheap and why it needs delivering rather than collection.

I also don't think it is greed, maybe in some part, but more in that the victims are often those on a very limited budget who are trying to find a half decent vehicle for their limited funds.

So yes there is blame on both sides but the sites that host the sales listings and the banks should and COULD be doing more to help combat it and protect potential victims.

[nutsonmercs]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

I agree, the banks and listings sites could and should do more. Even as I type, there is an account that has been hacked,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/shchyruk07...p2047675.l2562, that is still up and running after I contacted Ebay over 4 hours ago. Good, high feedback but nothing that relates to any of the items that are being sold. That fact that a buyer is on a limited budget (aren't we all!) should not mean that their common sense should be limited as well. Half decent vehicles sell for half the price that a decent one would sell for, not the other way round! There are buyers guides on Ebay that, if you follow them, should lead to a hassle free purchase. We all like a bargain, and I have made some purchases that I have made thousands on, and I'm not exaggerating. THINK, before you press that button or make that call for THE BARGAIN OF THE CENTURY.

[Amethyst]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

Looks like Ebay have squished that account now xxx

All we can do is continue to report the scams, and publicise them and the scammers methods and try catch as many people as possible before they fall for it, and carry on making noise in the background to try and get the authorities and listings sites to take stronger action.

[nutsonmercs]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

I'm always on the look out for a bargain on Ebay and often spot a scam that I report straight away. Problem with Ebay is that I don't think there is anyone there at the weekends! Okay, back to that I Phone 6 for £50 before someone else snaps it up

[Amethyst]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

lol, good luck with that.

And you are right, weekends Ebay are cr*p, and also the banks are cr*p and often don't shut down reported accounts sent from Friday night until Monday morning, by which time another few people have paid money in and the scammers have withdrawn it, when it could have been stopped grrrrrr.

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

It's useful and I welcome hearing a contrary opinion 'nutsonmercs' but it is an offence for a bank to maintain an account used to launder funds. To do so on a regular and recurring basis points to a fundamental failing either in regulation or banking procedures., and in the latter case should invoke a prosecution of the bank involved. Self-evidently the regulations don't work and the regulator has chosen to overlook the situation. As I have a particular interest in bank fraud, having spent my whole life in banking before I retired, I spend a lot of time researching and saving links to examples and, if you contend that individuals are stupid to be conned, what can be said about banks who themselves have lost millions of pounds to these frauds ?

These bank accounts are not just used to launder money stolen from individuals, they are also used in benefit fraud, theft from companies and local government and banks themselves. I have many outrageous examples of each type of fraud. Some of them point to the fraud actually originating from within the bank and I have examples of cases where bank staff have been prosecuted in such instances. The fact that banks have turned account opening into a 'competitive sport' hasn't helped by rewarding staff based on numbers of accounts opened, and we all know the risks inherent in the bonus environment in banking.

The whole concept of KYC (know your customer), which is the cornerstone of UK anti-money laundering legislation, has evaporated as can be seen when non-existent companies perform multi-million pound VAT 'carousel fraud'. Individual bank staff can be arrested and prosecuted for failing to report such payments, though it is very rare that this ever happens.

If you are aware of what is known as 'courier fraud you'll be aware that the police do not consider that the gullibility of the victims, who are mostly elderly, makes the crime their fault. I have to say that the ability of the criminals to obtain contact details for the elderly makes me suspicious as to where they're getting that information from. In the circumstances where it has been apparent that the criminal could only have obtained the information from the bank, the bank has refunded the money quickly. I doubt that most people understand the relevance of the criminal knowing specific details about their account which only their bank would know. If they did banks would be paying up in many more instances and they might tighten up who has access to that information.

I am not alone in thinking this

http://www.out-law.com/articles/2013...ance-failures/

Banks to face increased scrutiny as regulator reveals money laundering compliance failures
The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) is considering whether to take "further regulatory action" against a number of banks that lack proper procedures to protect against money laundering and terrorist financing.03 Jul 2013

I'm surprised that I should ever find myself agreeing with the FCA but on this issue we appear to concur.

According to the report, seven of the banks reviewed did not require staff to consider money laundering risks when processing a transaction, while all but two of the other banks only required "brief attestations" from staff that money laundering risks had been considered. Some of the banks told the FCA that they only dealt "in documents" and were "under no obligation to investigate underlying trade transactions", the regulator said.

It appears that the management of some banks don't even understand the basics of anti money laundering legislation which is outrageous. That is utterly fundamental.

[nutsonmercs]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

It's useful and I welcome hearing a contrary opinion 'nutsonmercs' but it is an offence for a bank to maintain an account used to launder funds. To do so on a regular and recurring basis points to a fundamental failing either in regulation or banking procedures., and in the latter case should invoke a prosecution of the bank involved.

I'm not sure how the system works but I would imagine that it takes a lot of time to investigate the accounts concerned which in the meantime means the criminals get away with their ill-gotten gains. Closing or restricting the account of a legitimate business could mean that the banks themselves could face heavy compensation claims from those affected.

Self-evidently the regulations don't work and the regulator has chosen to overlook the situation. As I have a particular interest in bank fraud, having spent my whole life in banking before I retired, I spend a lot of time researching and saving links to examples and, if you contend that individuals are stupid to be conned, what can be said about banks who themselves have lost millions of pounds to these frauds ?

The banks are not individuals and as such, they act pretty much like governments do (put up taxes) and increase their charges one way or another to cover any cock ups they make.

Remind me again of the bonuses they pay. They justify them by saying how well they have done and look at all the money they have made or, well if we hadn't done what we did, things would have been a lot worse !

The whole concept of KYC (know your customer), which is the cornerstone of UK anti-money laundering legislation, has evaporated as can be seen when non-existent companies perform multi-million pound VAT 'carousel fraud'. Individual bank staff can be arrested and prosecuted for failing to report such payments, though it is very rare that this ever happens.

Seems to me that the criminals use the concept of KYC and very good they are at it!

I'm not saying that I do not do stupid things at times, we all do but I wonder how many people that have been conned go on to be conned again. Very few people take responsibility for their actions, unless of course they're politicians, who say it so flippantly, because 99 times out of a 100, there are no consequences . It's always easier to blame someone else!

[Guest]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

there is no protection against peoples own stupidity

Yes there is.

And I've done it over 12,000 times.

[righty]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

Hindsight is great init but then I would NEVER EVER critizise a victim these fraudsters can be very convincing

[Guest]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

righty - I agree 100%

[dogtired]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

How are sellers protected?
Got an ad on Gumtree, phonecall asking for more details,
Mr DT gave out e mail.
HAd e mail from Friday Ad with the same ad word for word.
When contacted they said that permission had been given, reported as spam and asked to remove this ad, its put me off selling now.

[nutsonmercs]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

Yes there is.

And I've done it over 12,000 times.

And there are probably 12,000 people out there who haven't managed it once, why not share your secret with them

Hindsight is great init but then I would NEVER EVER critizise a victim these fraudsters can be very convincing

Hindsight IS great, it allows you to go back and see where you went wrong, assuming that you thought things out fully before going ahead with what you did rather than a "I thought that" kind of senseless answer that people give. There are both innocent and guilty victims. Some bring things upon themselves, and as I said earlier, blame their situation on others.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the fraudsters, far from it, and I report scams on Ebay as soon as I see them, but as for NEVER EVER criticizing a victim?, I'm sure that they would feel warm and fuzzy inside for that.