Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

[wales01man]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Nobody questions the name on an account it seems until they are caught in a scam after they have willingly given money over when the are paying for a BARGAIN most of which they have never seen, I agree the banks may be at fault the person who thinking they got a bargain and rushes to pay before it gets away must take a fair portion of the blame.
scams have been around for a long time and warnings of how not to fall for them are abundant maybe if some looked a bit deeper into the 5K car sold for 3k they wont get caught

[WeWalkInCircles]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Nobody questions the name on an account it seems until they are caught in a scam after they have willingly given money over when the are paying for a BARGAIN most of which they have never seen, I agree the banks may be at fault the person who thinking they got a bargain and rushes to pay before it gets away must take a fair portion of the blame.
scams have been around for a long time and warnings of how not to fall for them are abundant maybe if some looked a bit deeper into the 5K car sold for 3k they wont get caught

I would argue that if banks don't tell their customers the name isn't used it is reasonable to assume it is because it's the very first piece of information asked for. If they don't use it don't ask for it? The fact people thought they were paying money to a Gumtree account clearly gave them increased confidence about the transaction. The banks are helping the fraudster! If the banks don't adequately inform their customers about the payees name not being used it is only when the payment ends up in the wrong account or in a fraudsters account that the customer becomes aware! Then it's too late as the Faster Payment Service provides for almost real-time processing of the payment which means that the money is quickly with the fraudster who quickly moves it on. The banks can do nothing to get the money back.

Also your assumption I was getting a bargain is totally wrong! I also conducted due diligence to ensure the person I was dealing with was legitimate. Scams are getting increasingly sophisticated and some of the advice out there to guard against them is out-dated and wouldn't necessarily stop the scam from working.

[wales01man]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

If the person was legitimate you know who they are you know their address you can send letters before action and take them to county court?

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

The payment transfer system isn't designed for the benefit and protection of the customer. That's not an unreasonable proposition as it was designed by the service provider and not the consumer. By allowing the receipt of payments using 'anonymised' or fraudulent identities it acts as an encouragement to fraudsters and criminals to utilise their services to the risk of honest users. By means of the excuse of 'privacy' the banks then protect that misuse which also blocks any investigation of crime which saves a lot of hassle all round. Ironically, the banks don't normally actually know the real identities of the criminals as most of the accounts are set up using fake ID's. The excuse of 'privacy' this is never investigated as to how this is happening. The payment system then becomes a self-perpetuating and mutually comfortable arrangement. The criminals face little risk of prosecution and no one investigates why fraudulent accounts are so easily set up when theoretically there are stringent laws and procedures in place to prevent it.

As a final protective layer to ensure this situation continues, payment systems nowadays are legislated more and more to make the cost of fraud fall on the customer who is duped by these fraudulent accounts. My amazement is that having rendered the electronic payments system in to what is fast becoming a form of lottery to those unaware of the risks, the banks are introducing phone payment systems that are fundamentally insecure in every way possible.

The greatest irony is that, by law, every payment must identify the remitter which isn't for the benefit of either the remitter or receiver, but the receiver is free to remain anonymous to the detriment of the remitter. Surely the payer is entitled to know who he has paid the money to, more especially because banks are allowed to operate this unofficial anonymising service.

As long as these 'flaws' only affect the ordinary consumer nothing will be done to put them right but it's folly to believe that these accounts won't be used in major fraud against major corporations, government institutions and banks themselves, as has happened already. The mere fact that you can pay money to someone without knowing their identity is a nonsense in banking, legal and common sense terms. The current concerns about secrecy would appear to be overblown considering that the world's banking systems operate the most effective anonymising service of all. With only a few of these accounts set up any person can run rings round any surveillance, and we know that hundreds of these accounts exist.

I don't have special knowledge or powers. This information is available in news reports and it's easy enough to find examples of fake ID's being used. Those behind the scams don't appear very concerned that they face any risk of being stopped.

[stevelaw1234]

Re: Barclays and vehicle scam via ebay and gumtree

What was the vehicle ? looking on gumtree now[

QUOTE=dixie2013;366889]Hi i have experienced the same situation on the 13.8.13 regarding gumtree,barclays.They have took me for £3000 prentending to have an official GUMTREE sales team
The vehicle is still up for sale on gumtree as i type this from a diffent location!!!!!!!!?????????????? Ive tried to obtain help from police,action fraud,barclays ,my own bank etc etc etc. Any help support or guidance in this area is well appreciated.Reading all these posts/threads is making me aware that i am not alone in this situation SO WE SHOULD ALL JOIN FORCES IN THIS MATTER,

AGGRIEVED WHISTLING DIXIE!!!

[/QUOTE]

sadly action fraud is a waste of time, they just log your details and do nothing, they don't have the resources, if anything I would love the changes to be made, I know how you are feeling Dixie, it does get better after time

[dixie2013]

Re: Barclays and vehicle scam via ebay and gumtree

hi everyone, just an update regarding my fraud,ive given up on gumtree but sent a letter of complaint(severe lack of communiction or understanding via email ) to there postal address in london, it should be in there interests to look at the fake gumtree site to see how identical it is, its ME the victim trying to inform them people are being robbed and there using a worldwide company GUMTREE as a tool to do it openly as in my case which would suggest that the car i supposedely bought was still on gumtree a week later!! so how many times did they sell that vehicle?. BARCLAYS told me they have shut the account were my money went and when they became aware of my situation there was no money in the account so cant get it back from them (barclays)!!!. so i will now write to barclays customer relations to ask why the account has been shut down? . when did they finally receive my info as i went to a branch first before i got an address to send my info? will they provide a name and address for the account holder so i can take them to a small claims court?,my bank natwest hav'nt had any particular case manager yet so there's still hope with them as the above thread suggest the bank should tell or have signs to inform the customer that the account name isnt used,my case has been reffered via action fraud to brent police but hav'nt been in touch with me yet, i will contact David Greene @ Edwin Coe Solicitors in London and ask him does he think barclays have a case to answer as it surley can't be a coinsidance that ALL payments are going BARCLAYS accounts ALL in the london area, if the fraudulant account had not been reported by ME and carried on being used to steal and launder money from would i have had a stronger case because more that 1 fraud would have had occured on the account and would have been closed down, i really can't see the fraudsters opening a bank account and using it for just 1 transaction!! aka my f"¬"%ing 3k, i'm not at the ombudsman stage yet but i will certainaly look here http://www.paymentscouncil.org.uk/cu...wrong_account/ thanks WEWALKINCIRCLES for this

what stage are you other threader's at? thanks in advance of repling dixie2013:beagle:

[Celestine]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Sorry just catching up again with this thread:

Can whomever is now co-ordinating this complaint please drop me a PM to update on progress? Do we have a list of the Barclays account numbers being used? I have a useful contact who is investigating this matter and may be able to get direct assistance?

[lspeakman]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Hi, i can update you on my progress. I have issued Court Proceedings against Barclays Bank and they have just received acknowledgment of Service, in my pack to them i included all the other accounts names and account numbers and am sure found it on here where someone had posted a facebook link, if not i have a hard copy and can send them through to you by fax/post. Regards. Lynne

Sorry just catching up again with this thread:

Can whomever is now co-ordinating this complaint please drop me a PM to update on progress? Do we have a list of the Barclays account numbers being used? I have a useful contact who is investigating this matter and may be able to get direct assistance?

[Scammer-Hammer]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

I just managed to avert a family member from being scammed out of £12k for a camper van.

Here's the anatomy of the scam, and the scammer details, so that hopefully others that google his credentials will find this site.

Campervan listed on Gumtree - A 2011 Elddis Autoquest 130 - Price £12,000 - Half the market value - Sounds too good to be true?

Family member contacted the "seller", who speaks with an Eastern European accent. - He explains that he has had to move to Edinburgh, but the camper van is located in Plymouth. Because of this, he cannot facilitate any viewing or inspection of the vehicle. However, the vehicle is exactly as described, and he can arrange for it to be delivered, if payment is made. To ensure safety, he requests that payment be made through eBay, who can hold the money for 5 days after delivery, during which time the buyer can fully inspect the vehicle, and if it is not as described, eBay will return the money to the buyer. If this happens, and it won't happen he says, because the camper is exactly as described, he will arrange to have it collected at his own expense.

To prove that everything is above board, he provides, via email, a weblink to what appears to be a real eBay site, detailing their terms and conditions of transacting payments. It all looks very real, but of course, the whole site is fake. The site also includes his eBay profile, with 100% positive feedback. All fake of course, and suspiciously, all of the feedback uses very similar language.

Now convinced that they can go ahead with the sale, my family member said let's proceed. He then emailed a weblink entitled "2011 Elddis AutoQuest 130". Clicking on the link takes you to a page with the URL ending in mantei5sabin.de that is cleverly constructed to look like buy.ebay.co.uk-css.view.....etc.

The website that loads looks exactly like an eBay site, with all of the necessary logos, and requests a bank to bank transfer to eBay's holding account for the transaction.

Before proceeding any further, thank our lucky stars, my relative called me for advice, and we were able to abort the whole thing.

This guy's mobile phone number is 07907 980069 and his email address jimwood2001@gmail.com - Added here so that google can index these and lead other marks to this site before they hand over their money.

[dixie2013]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

deleted

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

How many fraudulent bank accounts do you think one criminal can open ? - one or two perhaps, or maybe ten - wrong. The highest published number of fraudulent bank accounts opened by one fraudster is 752.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-swindle.html

I appreciate that he didn't open them all personally, but he was the man behind it, recruiting and organising the process, and it was under his primary control. If only one fraud of £ 10,000 is performed using each account you get a total figure that would interest very large criminal organisations. When you consider that this person appears to have used very little sophistication in his fraud, it demonstrates how vulnerable the banking system is. It's no exaggeration to suggest that there is a ready reservoir of thousands of fraudulent accounts available for use in fraud.

CIFAS are a banking organisation who provide reports to the newspapers that give a very different view of banking fraud to what's actually taking place. In fact I'm not sure they've ever mentioned the criminal gangs opening fraudulent accounts with UK banks, as that would cast them in a bad light and their primary function is to protect the reputation of UK banks. The forum of which I'm a member is international with a predominance of US members and yet I don't recall one recent instance of a US bank opening a fraudulent bank account, yet it appears to be an epidemic in the UK.

You need two weaknesses in a banking system to perform a fraud - a ready outlet for funds and a means to generate the fraud. The outlet is there in the form of these rogue accounts, so the fraudster only has one problem to solve and the fact that he is able to mask his identity through the electronic payments system plays straight in to his hands.

I did mention that this would be turned against banks, as indeed it was in the recent attempted fraud against Banco Santander, but that was wildly ambitious and recklessly audacious. There are much softer areas they can target, and they won't be slow to find them. I don't know how close they came to pulling it off, and personally I doubt it was very close, if they were relying on guesswork, but the rewards for getting it right would be immense. Another common trick that has been deployed recently is to amend the banking details of local government contractors. There are various ways this can be done and the rewards are significant.

You simply cannot run a secure banking system with known flaws and exploits and hope it will hold together - it simply won't.

I don't think a scammer could open 752 fraudulent bank accounts in Nigeria. Is our banking system now less secure than Nigeria's ?

[geordielass]

Re: Barclays and vehicle scam via ebay and gumtree

I wonder if we are all being scammed by the same thief? Please read my experience.scammed by ebay/barclays bank
Hi Anyone who can help?
11/09/2013 I was scammed on ebay. My biggest mistake was to do a direct transfer to an account!!!.
Seller;hyland1-2012
Item;161103322686
email;sunnymorning72@gmail.com
Peugeot Boxer Elddis Autoquest 100 cammpervan
Registration GX02 JXP
Mobile number;07870546478 (Orange network) foreign accent?
Account; Michael Trana Barclays Bank sort code; 20-73-53 AC.No. 83916928
£5000 lost from my savings for this dream I had as a pensioner to travel.
Police crime reference number;47130072282
scam email I received I believed from ebay;ebay@payment-secured-ebay.co.uk
HPI check reference no.;WH14957914
HSBC my bank can't help since "I" made the transfer, ebay can't help since "I" did not use paypal, It was a classified advert with no paypal account. Police can't help or at least little hope as it takes up to 8 weeks to release information from orange and barclays due to the data protection act.
Apparently, the seller was genuine, the vehicle is genuine, thief infiltrated sellers account. Ebay did not notify me until very late 11/09/2013 with an alert email. Why was the item on ebay for so long and the owner nor ebay knew of the scam? I had 25 photographs of the vehicle and several emails in communication.
Where is Barclays in all this?
Please advise ...........sad geordielass

[Boycie]

Re: Barclays and vehicle scam via ebay and gumtree

Either I'm a genius with a brain that would make Sherlock Holmes look like a buffoon (vanity and self-delusion make this an appealing possibility) and you aren't getting the most accurate picture of what's going on geordielass, or UK banks and law enforcement agencies are hopelessly outwitted by fraudsters who can now commit crime from the comfort of their own armchairs without risk of ever getting caught, or stopped.

Seen adverts like this ?

http://www.studentjob.co.uk/vacancies/10251-ebay-poster-needed-work-from-home-easy-job-in-uk

eBay Poster Needed - Work from Home - Easy Job in UK
Company
Muramura
Brief description
eBay Poster Needed - Work from Home - Easy Job
Job description
Hi,
Please text me only on : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
I need someone who can post my ads online on eBay.
I will pay £70 + fees for each auction you will post.
You will need to use your own account.
I will send you the money every 2-3 days via PayPal or directly to your account ( bank transfer ).
I need someone serious about this job.
I will send you everything you need ( titles, pictures, description, etc. )
You will need only to post them on eBay.
Please text me only on : XXXXXXXXXXX
Thank You

Education Requirements
N/A
Preferred area of study
N/A
Further Information
Location
UK, West Midlands, Yorkshire, Other
Working Hours
1
Type of Contract
Part Time Jobs
Type of Job
Advertising / Marketing / PR , Management, Retail / Sales
Full UK/EU driving license preferred
No
Car Preferred
No
Must be eligible to work in the EU
No
Motivation Letter Required
No
Languages
English

Embarrasingly you can Google this advert and find it appearing widely posted on Gumtree in the UK and other countries.

Why do I say embarrassingly ? I do so because this is specifically against the Terms and Conditions of Ebay, and Gumtree is owned by the people who own Ebay (and Paypal).

The risk being that the person paying to use another person's Ebay account either innocently, or fraudulently, doesn't complete the sale and disappears with the money. I can't say that this is what happened in your case but, like paying money in to a bank account, no one is pointing out the risks inherent in the system. It's also a little poor that one arm of a company is proliferating a practice which is at best, against the terms and conditions of a sister company, and at worst a fraudulent practice.

I've said enough about UK banks and I'm astonished that CIFAS - the Bank's mouthpiece for fraud - hasn't mentioned one word about the fraudulent use of bank accounts by criminal gangs, but they wouldn't, would they ? Action Fraud and the police follow their example and this crime doesn't exist in the UK according to statistics.

People don't know the risks involved in buying online and sites like Ebay and Gumtree will suffer once people become aware. I'm still gobsmacked over the story of the man who opened over 750 fraudulent bank accounts in the UK. As long as that is considered normal in the UK I'd be very cautious about online purchases. The UK hasn't the financial system to handle it.

[Boycie]

Re: Barclays and vehicle scam via ebay and gumtree

Following on from the 'Santander' attempted fraud I have this very second just heard on BBC about an attempted fraud against Barclays (some irony) about a similar fraud against them that was successful and got away with over £1m, though I believe the money has been recovered.

From what I heard I believe that the criminals got access to a router on the premises of a branch and accessed customer accounts to perform the fraud.

I hate to say it but I did foresee this and it was bewilderingly stupid to believe this wouldn't happen as a direct consequence of banks being so lax in providing accounts for criminals to launder fraudulently obtained funds. Once they have that facility it's an open invitation to perform fraud, and the most lucrative option is the bank itself, and frankly you don't need to be overly bright to do it. If you are bright and/or have inside help, banks are exceedingly vulnerable and the potential rewards are too tempting.

The main fundamental flaw in the banking system is the existence of so many fraudulent bank accounts which aren't even acknowledged by banks or law enforcement.

[Rod Jones]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Interesting news article today (the one Boycie just referred to): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24185384
"Barclays Bank computer theft: Four charged over £1.3m haul"

Theft relates to the Swiss Cottage branch. Sort code for Swiss Cottage is 20-74-63, yes it's been used for eBay/Gumtree scamming.