Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

[SM3]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

To everyone that has been scammed by this car fraud- me included through Barclays bank. The Obudsman cannot help but they said we must contact the F.C.A ( Financial Conduct Authority) and they will act upon it. Their phone number is 0800 111 6768.
We must all do this as Barclays are allowing bank accounts to be opened for fraudulent use! This is our only hope of getting our money back by complaining about Barclays.

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Be in no doubt whatsoever that this fraud is facilitated by the ease with which organised crime can open fraudulent bank accounts with UK banks. Without those accounts this fraud wouldn't be possible and the UK has become the natural home for fraudsters for this reason. It's therefore ironic that the UK claims to have the most stringent money laundering legislation in the world. Of course legislation without implementation isn't of any use and to demonstrate this fact I can quote from relevant sources and victims can judge themselves whether or not their experience reflects what is stated. I have omitted links to these quotes but can do so if required. They are all taken from the online resources of the organisations mentioned.

CIFAS - (CIFAS is the UK's Fraud Prevention Service with 270 Member organisations spread across banking, credit cards, asset finance, retail credit, mail order, insurance, investment management, telecommunications, factoring and share dealing) - in other words this is the banks talking

Providers are legally required to close accounts that are used to launder money and can be heavily fined by international regulators if they fail to do so.


Money from drug dealing, investment and boiler rooms scams, fake lotteries, people trafficking and prostitution is pushed through these scams, so that ‘dirty’ money is made to appear as if it is ‘clean’.

Crimestoppers - (an independent charity helping to find criminals and help solve crimes) - supported by the police and government.

Money Mules are breaking the law. Ignorance of the law is no defence. If you become a Money Mule you are liable to be prosecuted and could face up to 10 years in prison.


If you become a Money Mule, you could become part of a police investigation, and are often the easiest link in the criminal chain to track down.


The bank account of the Money Mule will be suspended. Being tagged as a fraudster makes it harder to obtain a bank account in the future, and to obtain credit.


A Money Mule is liable to pay back all the money that they have transferred through their account. This could total many thousands of pounds.

Banksafeonline - (The Bank safe Online website is run by the Payments Council, the body with responsibility for ensuring that payment services work for all those that use them in the UK.) - another banking representative body

Remember that even if you have nothing to do with the actual extraction of funds from another person's account, by allowing your account to be used to receive and transfer such funds, you will be acting illegally.


Ignorance is no excuse - allowing your bank account to be used for fraud can lead to up to 10 years’ imprisonment!

The FFA - (Financial Fraud Action UK is the name under which the financial services industry co-ordinates its activity on fraud prevention)

The money you’re transferring is stolen, and what you’re doing is called money laundering, which is illegal. Involvement in money laundering can lead to a criminal sentence of up to ten years in prison.


Although the prospect of making some easy money may appear attractive, any money or ‘wages’ that you are given will be recovered by your bank because they are the proceeds of fraud. You will be the easiest link in the chain to track down and will be involved in any resulting police investigation. Your bank account will be closed down and details of the activity shared with other banks, making it hard for you to open up a bank account in the future.

Action Fraud - (Action Fraud is the UK’s national fraud reporting centre where you should report fraud if you have been scammed or defrauded) - effectively the police

A money mule is a person who transfers stolen money between different countries.


Money mules are often recruited by fraudsters to receive money into their bank account, then withdraw the money and wire it overseas, minus a commission payment.


Even if the money mule is not involved in the fraud to generate the money, they are acting illegally by laundering the funds.


For advice and information about this type of fraud, contact Action Fraud.


Action Fraud does not currenlty take fraud reports on money laundering please contact The Serious Organised Crime Agency.

The Joint Money Laundering Steering Group is made up of the leading UK Trade Associations in the Financial Services Industry

..... if a financial services firm has knowledge or suspicion that someone might be engaged in a money laundering activity, they have a legal obligation to report this to the UK Financial Intelligence Unit, which is located within the Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA).

Does any victim recognise that any of this is implemented by UK authorities or UK banks ?


I would agree with the previous poster that this situation should be reported to the FCA, but if they aren't already aware of the situation they are a disgrace. Doing so won't lead to the recovery of your money and the only answer is to steer clear of any bank that harbours fraudulent accounts. I know very well that the accounts are being opened with fake ID by gangs opening various accounts in multiple names. There are certainly hundreds of accounts, and could potentially be thousands. Most of the accounts have been opened in a small area of East London but I know that visits have been made outside this area by groups, and I doubt they were on sightseeing trips.

As much as individuals have suffered, there is the greater risk that these accounts will be utilised when the organisation running this fraud has access to the computer system of a major company. When that happens the repercussions will be very serious.

Meanwhile steer clear of making payments online to the accounts of banks that are known to have a problem with 'money mule' accounts.

[wales01man]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Best advice is see what your buying first remember a fool and his money are soon parted,dont rely on the law to get back the money as has been stated on this thread the banks and the police say the scammed person readily parted with the money?

[puddle55]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Best advice is see what your buying first remember a fool and his money are soon parted,dont rely on the law to get back the money as has been stated on this thread the banks and the police say the scammed person readily parted with the money?

Wales01man. Do you get pleasure out of kicking people when they are down. Have you never tried to obtain a bargain. People join this site for help and support not to be ridiculed further. If we are fool's there must be a lot of us about.

[wales01man]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

The people who are down are there not because of me?i get no pleasure I just state the obvious scams and scammers have been around for years so have those who fall victim some people I think need saving from themselfs. I agree people come on here for support but do those on here just say what people want to hear, I always look for a bargain have got many but I always buy with caution not with my eyes shut and brain switched off

[puddle55]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

The people who are down are there not because of me?i get no pleasure I just state the obvious scams and scammers have been around for years so have those who fall victim some people I think need saving from themselfs. I agree people come on here for support but do those on here just say what people want to hear, I always look for a bargain have got many but I always buy with caution not with my eyes shut and brain switched off

Thanks for those words of wisdom sat up there in your ivory tower, very helpful!

[MissFM]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

The fact that the banks and ebay etc appear to be at best negligent and at worst actively colluding in these scams makes it extremely difficult to tell the genuine from the fraudulent. I buy a great deal of stuff unseen from the internet and usually it is a smooth transaction and a bargain.

Luckily sites like this highlight the scams, which are becoming ever more sophisticated, but only after some people have suffered from them. As all human transactions are based to some degree on trust and good faith I don't see how any kind of trade could function without it.

The point about confidence tricks and tricksters is that they are utterly believable and you don't have to be stupid or greedy to fall for them because on the face of it - and increasingly below the surface - they look genuine, especially when operated by gangs.

When large supposedly regulated financial instituions fail in their duty of care to consumers and help the scammers, it gives the fraud an apparent fail-safe seal of approval.

[wales01man]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Puddle55 I don't live in an ivory tower I live in social housing cos im a peasant one who can realise when something is to good to be true a lot of the scammed are caught out because of their greed and stupidity not mine.I read on here of people who believed they could buy a vehicle for half the price it should be little wonder they get scammed.

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

These are very far from isolated incidents and it is operated by large scale organised crime which should not be enabled to perform fraud using bank accounts. Banks and ad sites aren't acting in collusion, but they aren't addressing the problem. In the case of banks they have a statutory duty to act and they are failing in their duty as this is occurring on a daily basis. If the banks and ad sites were losing money they would be much quicker to do something about it. It's a risky attitude to take because fraudsters only have one aim and when they work out how to defraud banks and ad sites, they won't hesitate to do so. Also, the more that certain ad sites and banks become associated with fraudulent activities, the more their reputations will suffer. Without a reputation an ad site doesn't have a viable business.

Though banks may be very capable of fobbing off individual victims these crime groups have the ability and facilities to perpetrate large scale fraud against major companies and organisations, and they have already done so. Banks will have major problems in fobbing them off, and the association of UK banking with organised fraud is something the FCA should be handling because it simply should not be happening. Before I retired I spent my whole working like in banking and I'm not without knowledge in this area. I also work on another forum where we deal with the victims of this fraud and the authorities appear to have their head in the sand over this issue.

There are ways in which the fraudsters can 'upgrade' the methods they use and target other areas of the payment system if they aren't stopped. Those who mock current victims will undergo a significant change in attitude when they find themselves victim too.

[wales01man]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

If your saying I mock victims be assured I am not stupid enough to fall for these scams I don't expect noting for free or a bargain car most of all II would not pay money into a bank account for something I didn't see

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

The first thing to ponder is how the fraudsters found it child's play to walk straight through bank security to open multiple scam bank accounts with a host of fake ID's in multiple names.

What you say is perfectly true but you are expecting an ordinary individual to show a degree of caution that appears to be beyond the ability of our banks. Clearly if the fraudsters were costing them money, their competence levels would improve dramatically, but their statutory obligations don't give them the right to overlook fraudulent activity that doesn't harm them. Currently they perform the 'three wise moneys' act with victims which prevents the victim even being sure who they dealt with and preventing redress. It isn't a conspiracy, but the systems works perfectly for the aspiring fraudster and it's a situation that's going to attract every crook to play the same game through the UK banking system. I did read somewhere that the EU wanted to make it possible for EU citizens to open accounts in member countries, presumably without being there in person, which would escalate the problem massively.

It is undoubtedly a mistake to believe that a bank account acts as a form of reference to a person's standing, but are the authorities and banks happy to have the status of bank accounts down graded to being just tools of the scammer ? There is a subtle but very significant issue at play here that is being overlooked which is how the public view banks and the accounts they hold. I assure you that the fraudsters find UK banking procedures highly amusing and a complete pushover.

There are various ways that they will be able to take banks for large amounts of money though currently they appear content with concentrating on private individuals but, as consumers wise up, they will seek to cash in all the accounts they've set up. No one would appreciate me mentioning publicly how they can take banks for money, but these people are well aware of how to do it because they've done it before. Let me just say that ignorant consumers aren't the only ones who presume that holding a bank account acts as a form of reference.

On that issue I would pose the question as to how it is that payday loan companies can spot a fraudster where banks can't ?

With fraudulent bank accounts aplenty you'd expect the scammers to be applying for payday loans all day long. Is the fraudster currently earning too much money or does the fact that the PDLC itself would lose money make them much more likely to apply money laundering legislation, and thus are banks applying MLL selectively, only when there is a risk to themselves ?

[wales01man]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

The banks don't give a stuff about the people ,they care only for profit so those at the top can get obscene bonuses,with PPI they fought to the death to avoid admitting it was no good in many cases

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

I don't deny disagree with you 'wales01man' (though I spent my whole life working for a bank) but that diverges from the issue.

There is a specific point at issue here and it will be lost if sweeping anti bank comments come in to play.

I made an observation that I added to my post after your comment and I'll repeat it, if I may.

On that issue I would pose the question as to how it is that payday loan companies can spot a fraudster where banks can't ?

With fraudulent bank accounts aplenty you'd expect the scammers to be applying for payday loans all day long. Is the fraudster currently earning too much money or does the fact that the PDLC''s themselves would lose money make them much more likely to apply money laundering legislation, and thus are banks applying MLL selectively, only when there is a risk to themselves ?

Banks would look down on PDLC's as regards banking sophistication and knowledge but they appear to have a sophistication and ability not possessed by banks, presumably because their business depends on it.

Consumers will wise up and the fraudsters' income will taper off, and these bank accounts are a resource the fraudsters will utilise in any way they can. That they will perpetrate fraud on the banking industry itself is a certainty.

[wales01man]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

I thought the issue was in part the banks,the banks took the money maybe or at least after being informed that the account holder was a scammer and refuse to stop it happening again their security measures in opening an account seem lax at best non existent at wose

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Yes - and and there is a fundamental weakness in the payment system that enables a scammer to ask you to pay money to Joe Smith, whose name you are asked to put on the payment details but, even if the account is in the name of Karamir Rasputin, it will still go through. The effect being, that because banks won't give the victim any information, the bank acts as a very effective anonymising service for scammers and fraudsters. Not that the real name (style) of the account would help much as it will have been opened against fake ID, and I have copies of some examples. The fraudsters are so amused by the laxity of UK banking they don't hesitate to use names that in their own language are mocking. One I came across translated as 'you fool'. There is no such surname.

Once this scam is turned against fellow members of the financial services industry, or banks themselves, regulators and banks will start paying attention but, as long as it only affects the public at large, the regulatory bodies involved will act purely to defuse any action or investigation of what's going on. The regulatory bodies are really just the banks wearing a different hat.

Simple maths would evidence that these bank accounts would enable the fraudsters to pass several million pounds in a few days merely with a bit of online form filling from payday loan companies, and that's based on a very conservative estimates of their reserve of accounts. I'm certain that it's on their 'to do' list.

Obfuscated and outrageous names have been given as beneficiaries on these payments and you don't need much imagination to work out what games could be played if bank names were given or the titles of government institutions or major UK companies. The fraudulent money mule accounts are just the means to collect their stolen funds and the problem is that the authorities ought to prevent the theft but if they can't, simple implementation of current money laundering regulations would. Worse is the fact that the blatant use of bogus bank accounts is allowed to continue making the criminal enterprise a very lucrative protected industry. The current 'head in the sand' attitude is only going to attract more participants in to this area of crime. It is creating a new crime industry and it's all taking place under the noses of UK authorities without any reaction or hindrance.

The criminals' aim and purpose is to get inside the computer systems of large organisations to initiate bogus payments which can then be filtered away through the mule accounts. This isn't make believe as they've already done it in the USA and what happened in Australia is another example. Failing to shut down the mule accounts is recklessly negligent and merely encouraging the criminals.

Of course the money doesn't stay in the bank or the country for long so I'm further baffled as to why it's allowed.