Negligence in mental health questions

[Fraggle45]

Hi, need some advise as to whether I have been treated negligency by the mental health team.

I have specific behaviours as part of my diagnosis I asked for another worker as I believed I would behave inappropriately with the one I had. I was ignored and didn't get another worker. I then did behave exactly how I said I would and lost my support and treatment in a manner that resulted in psychological harm to me and severe self harm. I never recovered from being dumped and no replacement treatment was arranged despite suicide attempts.

So would it be considered negligent not to allow me to change worker in the first instance and then to dump me in the manner they did because I did exactly what I said I would (had been seeking treatment for it and had been open). Was the duty of care breached in not making sure the least amount of harm was caused to me ? Did they have a responsibility surrounding providing further treatment preventing self harm? Am I totally to blame as I have been because I was unwell and behaved inappropriately because of that or did they have a duty to at least help me manage my behaviour / provide treatment ?

Sorry so many questions

[JackieG]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

Hi

In order to prove "negligence" you need to show various things. The first is a duty of care.. which your mental health team will have had - a responsibility to you. The second is that this duty was breached; that the breach of duty caused your subsequent reaction and that it has caused you damage. ie that what you have experienced was as a result of that initial treatment. That is quite a lot of hurdles to get over for you to claim any sort of compensation as a consequence. Have you raised any formal complaint with the mental health provider?

[Fraggle45]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

Thanks for your reply! Yes certainly I understand how hard the damage would be to prove since I already had mental health problems but I was harmed and had ptsd symptoms from it and intense psychological suffering over a couple of years. My self harm also escalated way beyond anything I had ever done to myself and it ended with a suicide attempt which was treated in hospital.

I am about to make a formal complaint to the health board having had absolute ignorance from within the cmht and my psychiatrist. There are also issues with false facts in my notes - all 100% provable as I have recordings of all my sessions with the mental health team.

I was just wondering if it really was all my fault for being damaged and behaving that way or they did have some responsibility for helping me manage? Don't want to make a fool of myself claiming something wrong

[JackieG]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

Don't worry, you won't make a fool of yourself. The mental health team did have a duty of care to you. Not knowing the ins and outs of the issue, all I can say is that in order to claim any form of financial compensation, you would need to show that the actions of the mental health team caused what happened next. This is usually proven by medical expert evidence so an expert would need to make the link.

The main question for you is what do you want out of complaining or claiming? Any form of legal action brings with it enormous strain and anxiety and it very rarely gives people what they want. You need to weigh up the impact it may have on you. For example, whilst one medical expert could argue that the actions of the Mental health team caused what happened next, another may take a different view and you would need to be ready for that different view. Have you contacted any of the mental health charities? Talking it through with someone may help you to clarify what would be best for you.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

Thanks for your reply! Yes certainly I understand how hard the damage would be to prove since I already had mental health problems but I was harmed and had ptsd symptoms from it and intense psychological suffering over a couple of years. My self harm also escalated way beyond anything I had ever done to myself and it ended with a suicide attempt which was treated in hospital.

I am about to make a formal complaint to the health board having had absolute ignorance from within the cmht and my psychiatrist. There are also issues with false facts in my notes - all 100% provable as I have recordings of all my sessions with the mental health team.

I was just wondering if it really was all my fault for being damaged and behaving that way or they did have some responsibility for helping me manage? Don't want to make a fool of myself claiming something wrong

It's a personal injury claim for psyche damages as your existing medical condition has been worsened. It may not be as hard as you think as you have a registered medical condition which is a requirement for a psyche claim. You are also under a psych team so there is a sufficient link (proximity) to bring a claim against them. You normally have to prove that their act or omission in their responsibility (duty) to you has wronged (breach) you. You have to prove the wrong (breach) done to you is linked to the worsening of your pre-existing medical condition (causation). The standard is the reasonable psych team at a professional level when compared to an hypothetical equivalent. If their standard fell below the hypothetical equivalent is it's breach of duty. In my view, your mental health team may have breached their duty of care as it was foreseeable you'd either self harm or attempt suicide as they knew your history of self harm. Their breach was the sole cause of the foreseeable self harm. In short, no other person at the professional standard would have treated you the way they did.

Call the law society and say you want to get legal advice for psychological damages (worsening an existing psych condition) claim. A lawyer may take this on a no win, no fee basis. Alternatively you can report the psych team to the hospital, then going through your MP, make a claim to the Parliament Ombudsman (includes NHS). It takes up to 9 months going through the Ombudsman, but one way or another you'll have your voice heard and this type of thing will be stopped as the Ombudsman has certain clout.

[Diana M]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

I was just wondering if it really was all my fault for being damaged and behaving that way or they did have some responsibility for helping me manage?

Of course it's not your fault for being damaged. How could it be. Please don't think like that.

You say they then "dumped" you. Does this mean you're no longer getting any help for your mental health issues?

Look into whether you have any statutory right to a Mental Health Advocate to help you through this rough patch. You can read about that potential option here > http://www.mind.org.uk/information-s.../#.V39vw5VRFLM

Your original mental health team have upset you. They need to know that, even if there's no price tag on the resolution. Sometimes saying "sorry" goes a long way to healing a situation too. I hope you get that from them.

Di

[charitynjw]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

It's a personal injury claim for psyche damages as your existing medical condition has been worsened. It may not be as hard as you think as you have a registered medical condition which is a requirement for a psyche claim. You are also under a psych team so there is a sufficient link (proximity) to bring a claim against them. You normally have to prove that their act or omission in their responsibility (duty) to you has wronged (breach) you. You have to prove the wrong (breach) done to you is linked to the worsening of your pre-existing medical condition (causation). The standard is the reasonable psych team at a professional level when compared to an hypothetical equivalent. If their standard fell below the hypothetical equivalent is it's breach of duty. In my view, your mental health team may have breached their duty of care as it was foreseeable you'd either self harm or attempt suicide as they knew your history of self harm. Their breach was the sole cause of the foreseeable self harm. In short, no other person at the professional standard would have treated you the way they did.

Call the law society and say you want to get legal advice for psychological damages (worsening an existing psych condition) claim. A lawyer may take this on a no win, no fee basis. Alternatively you can report the psych team to the hospital, then going through your MP, make a claim to the Parliament Ombudsman (includes NHS). It takes up to 9 months going through the Ombudsman, but one way or another you'll have your voice heard and this type of thing will be stopped as the Ombudsman has certain clout.

Of course it's not your fault for being damaged. How could it be. Please don't think like that.

You say they then "dumped" you. Does this mean you're no longer getting any help for your mental health issues?

Look into whether you have any statutory right to a Mental Health Advocate to help you through this rough patch. You can read about that potential option here > http://www.mind.org.uk/information-s.../#.V39vw5VRFLM

Your original mental health team have upset you. They need to know that, even if there's no price tag on the resolution. Sometimes saying "sorry" goes a long way to healing a situation too. I hope you get that from them.

Di

There is a third element to the Caparo test.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

There is a third element to the Caparo test.

Hi Charity,

The Caparo test is only used to establish whether a duty of care exists so this is a primary test only where there is no existing case law, precedents. For psych injuries it's the Hillsborough case but to establish whether a breach is likely in the op's situation, it's to which extent the serious injury is foreseeable, ie another case.

[charitynjw]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

Hi Charity,

The Caparo test is only used to establish whether a duty of care exists so this is a primary test only where there is no existing case law, precedents. For psych injuries it's the Hillsborough case but to establish whether a breach is likely in the op's situation, it's to which extent the serious injury is foreseeable, ie another case.

The Alcock case also concerned the 'floodgates' principle, which is also often featured in cases involving the medical profession.

Imho, the OP needs to obtain as much info as possible, particularly reports, recommendations etc held by the other party. From personal experience, the evidence of 'backside-covering' when comparing their (sometimes completely fabricated) case histories, etc, to actual provable facts was/is unbelievably obvious (to the 'reasonable man').
This came to light via a SAR.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

The Alcock case also concerned the 'floodgates' principle, which is also often featured in cases involving the medical profession.

Imho, the OP needs to obtain as much info as possible, particularly reports, recommendations etc held by the other party. From personal experience, the evidence of 'backside-covering' when comparing their (sometimes completely fabricated) case histories, etc, to actual provable facts was/is unbelievably obvious (to the 'reasonable man').
This came to light via a SAR.

Alcock (Hillsborough case) was bound to reinforce the Caparo public interest test as there were so many potential claimants. However, in itself Caparo was necessary to consider whether Alcock would be successful, ie permit psyche claims, ie for police officers, Hillsborough supporters' families and other direct claims/ witnesses to traumatic events.

Given Alcock's ratio, Caparo is not necessary to establish whether psyche claims can be established. So Alcock established the space, time for the victim to satisfy; proximity to the victim (if not the victim, ie a relative making a claim when their relative was injured); proximity in terms of distance to the incident etc. In terms of establishing breach, it must be foreseeable for the psych staff/ professionals/ non professionals' duty to fall so low that serious injury or death was foreseeable, think the case is called Paris. For the professional standard, it's a case called Bolam (a doctor). Did the reasonable professional's duty fall so low that it was breached? If so, was the breach linked to the personal injury: worsening psyche damages, in terms of causation? For instance, was there a sole cause attributed to the injury? On these facts there is bound to be piles of documents which may support there was a propensity for serious harm if the patient was not dealt with appropriately and professionally.

[Fraggle45]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

Thanks for all your replies. I am about to put in a complaint under the putting things right process (NHS Wales) which can offer redress in the form of financial (under £25,000), remedial treatment, apologies etc I'm not particularly wanting money rather treatment but also an acknowledgement of the harm caused.

I don't think I have the strength to pursue a court claim and unless it was no win no fee then I don't have the funds either. I was forced into bankruptcy following the harm because I was unable to work.

I think I have a battle on my hands because the team have absolved themselves from any responsibility for the actions taken. I was told by the psychiatrist I was indignant and blaming of others. The nurse said that although I had told them of the issue it was my responsibility to do something about it- I'm not sure how when I was seeking treatment for it because I didn't know how to solve it myself.

In terms of the self harm before being dumped I had about 10 visits to a&e in my life. The two years following being harmed this rose to 80 and I have permanent nerve damage in my hand and obviously scarred for life. Purely caused by the suffering from the harm.

I have obtained all the notes I think they are going to allow me to see plus the a&e attendance ones. Large parts are falsified in a manner which discredits me and I believe they were altered after the fact as things that happened are stated before they did. What the mental health team don't know is that I recorded on my phone every meeting/appointment I had with them and have transcripts of these. So proving the falsifications isn't a problem.

I have had an informal meeting just within the mental health team in which I was basically told it would be my word against theirs and as a mental health patient my word won't count for much. This is absolutely true as I have experienced this throughout the time I was under the service.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

Thanks for all your replies. I am about to put in a complaint under the putting things right process (NHS Wales) which can offer redress in the form of financial (under £25,000), remedial treatment, apologies etc I'm not particularly wanting money rather treatment but also an acknowledgement of the harm caused.

I don't think I have the strength to pursue a court claim and unless it was no win no fee then I don't have the funds either. I was forced into bankruptcy following the harm because I was unable to work.

I think I have a battle on my hands because the team have absolved themselves from any responsibility for the actions taken. I was told by the psychiatrist I was indignant and blaming of others. The nurse said that although I had told them of the issue it was my responsibility to do something about it- I'm not sure how when I was seeking treatment for it because I didn't know how to solve it myself.

In terms of the self harm before being dumped I had about 10 visits to a&e in my life. The two years following being harmed this rose to 80 and I have permanent nerve damage in my hand and obviously scarred for life. Purely caused by the suffering from the harm.

I have obtained all the notes I think they are going to allow me to see plus the a&e attendance ones. Large parts are falsified in a manner which discredits me and I believe they were altered after the fact as things that happened are stated before they did. What the mental health team don't know is that I recorded on my phone every meeting/appointment I had with them and have transcripts of these. So proving the falsifications isn't a problem.

I have had an informal meeting just within the mental health team in which I was basically told it would be my word against theirs and as a mental health patient my word won't count for much. This is absolutely true as I have experienced this throughout the time I was under the service.

It's a shame you can't take them through the courts. Mental health problems are one thing, but saying as mental health patient that your testimony won't count is discrimination. So, you have a claim for disability discrimination and claim for psyche damages. Just because they deny liability, which they're bound to do, does not mean they're not liable (in breach). The psychiatrist has a duty of care to you at the professional standard, and any person without mental health problems would likely blame the relevant medical professional where they have breached that duty.

[Fraggle45]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

That is sadly how mental health patients are routinely treated once diagnosed you automatically become untrustworthy, your opinions count for very little and your word will never ever be taken over that of a 'professional' as an example a CPN told my psychiatrist that I had said something which I had not pertaining to my mental health and her word was taken as gospel as a result at the time my psychiatrist accused me of lying and decided not to see me that regularly because what the nurse had stated meant he felt I didn't need so much input when I clearly still did. Again I have it recorded but chose not to reveal that out of fear of repercussions.

Taking them to court would only allow for compensation nobody would be disciplined and I wouldn't receive treatment. I've decided to report the false notes and the CPN to the NMC so that they can be hopefully either given training or have their work monitored so nobody else has to experience this and if they see fit be struck off so nobody else has to suffer them.

Some of the treatment you get is shocking I have a degree and previously a good job yet I've been shouted out, spoken to like a child and like somebody of minimal intelligence but there are good workers out there too.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

That is sadly how mental health patients are routinely treated once diagnosed you automatically become untrustworthy, your opinions count for very little and your word will never ever be taken over that of a 'professional' as an example a CPN told my psychiatrist that I had said something which I had not pertaining to my mental health and her word was taken as gospel as a result at the time my psychiatrist accused me of lying and decided not to see me that regularly because what the nurse had stated meant he felt I didn't need so much input when I clearly still did. Again I have it recorded but chose not to reveal that out of fear of repercussions.

Taking them to court would only allow for compensation nobody would be disciplined and I wouldn't receive treatment. I've decided to report the false notes and the CPN to the NMC so that they can be hopefully either given training or have their work monitored so nobody else has to experience this and if they see fit be struck off so nobody else has to suffer them.

Some of the treatment you get is shocking I have a degree and previously a good job yet I've been shouted out, spoken to like a child and like somebody of minimal intelligence but there are good workers out there too.

Don't react emotionally - or you'll lose your credibility - these people are like machines so you have to be careful what you say and how you say it. Your degree won't count for nothing if you don't play their game. It's about control and manipulation. Try to be as objective as you can be.

[Fraggle45]

Re: Negligence in mental health questions

Do you think when writing my complaint letter it should be emotionally dead so to speak or have some emotion. At the moment it is written with fact with some emotion in highlighting how the harm affected me.

Was just wondering which way to go as too factual and no emotion might seem like there's nothing wrong with me yet as you say too emotional and you do lose credibility. Also I acknowledge that I did do some wrong things - do I be upfront with detail or wait until the mental health team highlight it? My problem has always been that I'm too honest for my own good