Who's to blame?

[Frostula]

Hi All, I'm new to this forum and in need of some advice. A few weeks ago I went to a local pub with a friend. Hadn't been there more than 40 minutes when a group of drunk people thought it would be funny to push over a large fruit machine. I didn't see it coming as it was pushed from my left side and the full weight of it landed on my foot, breaking my big toe in quite a bad way. The landlady, who was drunk at the time, was very apologetic and offered me free meals and drinks of which I did not accept. I just wanted to get to the hospital. The pub is part of a large uk chain and has CCTV footage of the incident as do the police of whom I had a visit from at home a few days later. At the time I had just started a new job which, luckily, I didn't loose but I had loss of earnings as they obviously wouldn't pay me while I was on sick leave. Weeks on now I'm back at work but still in pain and I can't bend that toe anymore. I think it may have healed, fusing the joint together (will be going to the hospital to find out). Driving is still a problem too. My question is: who is responsible in a claim? Should it be those who pushed it over or does the pub have a duty of care for its customers? If so would it extend to a situation like this? What should I do? If anyone could offer any advice it would be very much appreciated! Thanks in advance

[enaid]

Re: Who's to blame?

The pub should be covered by Public Liability Insurance, I would think head office of the pub chain is the starting point if you are going to make a claim.

[nemesis45]

Re: Who's to blame?

Hi Welcome to LB,

The Land Lord/Land Lady /Manager is responsible for the safety of customers during opening hours, ultimately is the pub is owned by one of the large pub groups liability will fall upon the company.

Having had a number of pubs in the family as far as I can remember these " free standing" fruit machines are supposed to be secured against tipping over, this was either a bar across the bottom of the machines or chains securing each side.

Make a formal complaint to the CEO/MD of the owners of the pub.

nem

[Frostula]

Re: Who's to blame?

Hi Welcome to LB,

The Land Lord/Land Lady /Manager is responsible for the safety of customers during opening hours, ultimately is the pub is owned by one of the large pub groups liability will fall upon the company.

Having had a number of pubs in the family as far as I can remember these " free standing" fruit machines are supposed to be secured against tipping over, this was either a bar across the bottom of the machines or chains securing each side.

Make a formal complaint to the CEO/MD of the owners of the pub.

nem

Hi guys, thank you for your advice. Do you think that a personal letter from myself will have any effect? I would assume they would just ignore it?

[nemesis45]

Re: Who's to blame?

Hi guys, thank you for your advice. Do you think that a personal letter from myself will have any effect? I would assume they would just ignore it?

The Formal Complaint is a process you need to follow if you intend to seek any form of redress from the pubs owner.

If you intend to make a claim via the county court small claims process the court will " expect" you to have tried to resolve the matter without recourse to a court claim.

nem

[des8]

Re: Who's to blame?

Hi guys, thank you for your advice. Do you think that a personal letter from myself will have any effect? I would assume they would just ignore it?

Why would they ignore it?
Tell them you hold them responsible for the accident, and remind them they should refer the matter to their PL insurers.

[enaid]

Re: Who's to blame?

They would not ignore a formal complaint , and if by chance they do or you don't get any satisfaction you can go to your local Licensing Officer for help.

[Endlessnine3]

Re: Who's to blame?

Hi Welcome to LB,

The Land Lord/Land Lady /Manager is responsible for the safety of customers during opening hours, ultimately is the pub is owned by one of the large pub groups liability will fall upon the company.

Having had a number of pubs in the family as far as I can remember these " free standing" fruit machines are supposed to be secured against tipping over, this was either a bar across the bottom of the machines or chains securing each side.

Make a formal complaint to the CEO/MD of the owners of the pub.

nem

Fruit machines do not have to be secured to stop people pushing them over as they are hard to push over sideways
Normally when a fruity goes over its forwards as the base is designed so it is wider sideways that back to front
I can say that with confidence as I am now in my ,25th year in the trade

[garethp]

Re: Who's to blame?

Fruit machines do not have to be secured to stop people pushing them over as they are hard to push over sideways
Normally when a fruity goes over its forwards as the base is designed so it is wider sideways that back to front
I can say that with confidence as I am now in my ,25th year in the trade

Surely though, that would be up to the pub management to decide based on their H&S risk assessments. If it were me, I would see the risk, and feel happier if it was restrained.

What difference does it make which way it is pushed over? It's still pushed over, and can cause serious injury.

[jon1965]

Re: Who's to blame?

Fruit machines do not have to be secured to stop people pushing them over as they are hard to push over sideways
Normally when a fruity goes over its forwards as the base is designed so it is wider sideways that back to front
I can say that with confidence as I am now in my ,25th year in the trade

I would agree , the large metal bars that you see are to secure the cash boxes which can hold a considerable sum of money

[jon1965]

Re: Who's to blame?

Surely though, that would be up to the pub management to decide based on their H&S risk assessments. If it were me, I would see the risk, and feel happier if it was restrained.

What difference does it make which way it is pushed over? It's still pushed over, and can cause serious injury.

As you said it took several people to push the machine over, have you ever tried to move one of these machines let alone push it over (I have ). If HS were the concern I would imagine you would need to nail down every table and chair in the place , every painting on a wall-it would be impractical.
The way forward will be a formal complaint but I have a feeling that unless you can show negligence on behalf of the brewery you may be onto a loser. If the landlady was the person who holds the licence they would be in breach of their contract to be drunk on the premises

[Endlessnine3]

Re: Who's to blame?

Surely though, that would be up to the pub management to decide based on their H&S risk assessments. If it were me, I would see the risk, and feel happier if it was restrained.

What difference does it make which way it is pushed over? It's still pushed over, and can cause serious injury.

No company will drill holes to fit a chain as the hole could be used to defraud the machine

the only way to secure a machine securely is in a security cabinet but no pub will have them as they take up to much room and are ugly and there is also the cost of it approx £2500 per cabinet per machine

someone pushing a machine over is in fact very rare and in 25 years i have never had s call where this has happened infact your more likely to get run over or be in a plane crash

empty they weigh around 125kg plus

personaly I would have reported it to the police and then they could get the CCTV

[jon1965]

Re: Who's to blame?

No company will drill holes to fit a chain as the hole could be used to defraud the machine

the only way to secure a machine securely is in a security cabinet but no pub will have them as they take up to much room and are ugly and there is also the cost of it approx £2500 per cabinet per machine

someone pushing a machine over is in fact very rare and in 25 years i have never had s call where this has happened infact your more likely to get run over or be in a plane crash

empty they weigh around 125kg plus

personaly I would have reported it to the police and then they could get the CCTV

I have seen metal security cabinets for machines in pubs, I used to rep into both chain and independent pubs, some in areas that would make your toes curl