any rights re carbon monoxide?

[scott-m]

Hi ,
Just a quick one .

We took a tenancy last June 2013 on a 4 bed detached house. In July 2013 stuff (hard concretey black stuff) started falling down the chimney. As there was a new carpet fitted, phoned the agent and was told not to worry about it.

Had the gas board out a week or so ago to do annual check and the gas fire in the living room has been condemned and disconnected due t0 the coals being wrong. Also the flue has badly cracked and broken up which caused all the fumes ( smoke test) from the fire to come into the room not up the chimney.

There had been someone out just before we took over purely to check the flue ( have signed form) As the fire was only used to take the chill off the room on cold winter mornings it hasnt been used much over the year.

The flue blockage and fumes coming into the room seem to now explain to me why my partner felt groggy over the winter and why the 5 yr old and 15 yr old were sent home from school complaining of tiredness and sore heads.

Hadnt put 2 and 2 together at the time. We are grateful we never put it on for evenings as who knows what would have happened.

Agents dont seem to give a stuff so am now thinking of purchasing somewhere but meanwhile am supposed to be renewing lease imminently. Is there any recourse re this as it in a long list of issues we have had this year.

Thanks for reading

[Celestine]

Re: any rights re carbon monoxide?

Hi Scott

Firstly can i say how relieved I am that you and your family have survived this brush with the silent killer Carbon Monoxide. You are all very lucky that this fault was picked up.

In January 2013, my family experienced a similar issue with a wood burner in our rental home. Similarly to you, we reported an earlier concern to the landlord which was dismissed.

Prior to January 2013, my husband and I had both been extremely ill with headaches, dizziness, memory loss, tiredness etc etc. We had both visited A&E separately several times due to the severity of our symptoms, however, the doctor did not 'join the dots' and we were diagnosed with other vague conditions....my husband was even scanned for a brain tumour 4 days before Xmas 2012. Terrifying.

The wood burner was our primary source of evening heat so we had been exposed badly, fortunately our children were unaffected as they were always upstairs in bed when the fire was lit.

Our Landlord was very aggressive after the fault was discovered. They tried everything to blame us including that we had burned the wrong things or that the wood wasn't properly seasoned.

Unfortunately, even in our case, the link between the illnesses and the fire was circumstantial, because no doctor ever performed a CO 'Puff Test' while we were ill. Unknowingly, we waited 3 days before we managed to get appointments to see our GP, by which time all CO had left our bodies; which meant we could not prove direct causal link.

I had a very helpful chat with Shelters legal team (who were brilliant) http://www.shelter.org.uk who gave me a very detailed explanation of our rights. We also spoke to Personal Injury lawyers to discuss bringing a claim against our landlord. They agreed we did have a case, but would only get compensation of 4-6k each....because it hadn't killed us?! We would have had to demonstrate a link to direct financial loss caused by our illnesses.

Lastly, our landlord hinted they would evict us if we brought any claim against them. Our home may be a rental, but we are here long term and we want to stay as it is perfect for our life and family, so we reckoned that the small financial payout would hardly be worth the stress and effort of finding somewhere new to live.

I now try and warn others wheneverI can about the dangers of Carbon Monoxide, especially in wood burners; which I never knew to cause problems. Its worth noting that ALL wood burner installations need to be signed off by a Building Control officer to be fully legal and compliant. Many people ignore this completely leading to poor quality installations.

For anyone else reading: If you suspect a device is leaking or has leaked CO, go to A&E IMMEDIATELY to request a Carbon Monoxide PUFF TEST. Without it, you will struggle to bring a legal claim against your landlord.

I'm afraid you will probably need to put this down to experience Scott. But I do know this, everywhere you now live with your family, you will have at least 3 CO detectors dotted around!!

http://covictim.org

http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/co.htm

[scott-m]

Re: any rights re carbon monoxide?

Hi Celestine,

Many thanks for your indepth reply. That is roughly what I thought. will put it down to experience . roll on buying my own place.

I am glad you and your family came away unscathed . Lesson for us all I think

many thanks

[Johnboy007]

Re: any rights re carbon monoxide?

As an ex retired 'Corgi registered gas Engineer' of some 30+ years. The law is quite clear on responsibilities with regards to gas appliances.
The landlord is directly responsible for ensuring that any gas appliance installed in the property, has been correctly installed by a competent person ( Now Gas Safe Registered ) and that it has a current Landlords Gas Safety Certificate.
If you make a claim against your landlord, he will have a hell of a job evicting you.
You merely have to prove to the court that you took a legal action against him, and suggest to the judge, that is why he is trying to evict you.
You can get in touch with the Health & Safety Executive and ask them to investigate.
They have some serious powers.

I too am very happy that you and your family survived what could have been a tragic event.
Carbon Monoxide is known in the trade as 'The Silent Killer'.
It is poisonous,
You can't smell it,
You can't see it,
But you can be killed by it.
The safe operation of a wood-burning stove requires regular maintenance such as emptying ash pans (containers) beneath the wood grate. Routine cleaning of the stove pipes and chimney is also needed to prevent chimney fires. Creosote and soot gradually build up in stove pipes and chimneys. This can damage the chimney and spread fire to the surrounding structure, especially the roof. When soot blocks the airflow through the stove pipes or chimney, smoke can back up in the stove pipes and into the house through the stove.
The basic principle of controlling combustion by reducing the air supply means that very often there is a reduction zone/conditions within the stove. This means that carbon dioxide is often "reduced" to carbon monoxide, which is highly poisonous and must not be allowed to escape into the home. This can occur if the stove or chimney has not been cleaned or there is insufficient ventilation. Carbon monoxide detectors or alarms should always be installed according to manufacturers' recommendations where a wood stove is in use. Smoke detectors do not detect carbon monoxide.
Fuel accelerants such as coal, grease, oil, gasoline, kerosene, plastics, and so on, also must never be added to firewood in a wood stove, since the flames produced may easily overwhelm the wood compartment and stove pipes and create a house fire.
Legal requirements for new installations in the UK can be found in Building Regulations Approved Document J, Section 2, Table 1 "Air Supply to solid fuel appliances"