Personal Injury - Gym whilst under PT supervision

[NOCAB]

Hi once again thank you for you concise responses I really do value your opinions here. My concern is that my solicitor seems to be less than keen to expedite matters as I don’t understand why they didn’t approach both insurers at the same time rather than in sequence. I am concerned that they are just not really concerned with following this case through

re evidence again I am not sure how this works so if I explain in summary maybe you could shed some light in the likely hood of this being followed up

1 I employed (cash in hand) a PT to help me in the gym
2 I advised of existing injuries he did not ask or record these
3 exercises he supervised and got me to complete are retrospectively unwise for someone like me with knee and back issues
4 the PT did not carry out a PARQ
5 if he had carried out a PARQ he should have asked for medical advise before continuing any training with me
6 I had previously broken my right knee am due annop on my left knee for torn cartilidge and have lower back disc degeneration
7 exercise that caused damage was a hack squat
8 after the incident the PT advised he would log in the accident book but didnt
9 despite repeated attempts by me the club failed to log the accident
10 as a result the club failed to lock down any supporting cctv footage
11 the following day after the accident the PT text me to ask me how my back was showing he clearly knew I had a problem and later asked for medical reports !
12 some weeks later when I wrote to him asking for a refund based on the increased weight he applied during this exercise which caused the damage to my back he provided a refund and did not deny that he caused this
13 screen shots of me attempting to log my injury via the clubs 'contact us' webpage are then denied as being received by the club despite an acknowledgement screen confirming this was received
14 since raising my complaint the club have cancelled my membership
15 the club manager filled in an injury log form much later worded in such a way as to deny as responsibility from either the club or PT which I refused to sign
16 the club have since equally been warned by the ICO of a failure to control the use of my data under GDPR regulations


not sure if that is everything but that is the bulk of it that I can remember to date

i hope this helps

[victorross]

I think the evidence of your medical statements will play an important part in your personal injury claim.

[Manxman]

Hi

I'm a long time reader of these boards but haven't posted before.

I've been following this thread since it started and I would just like to point something out to the OP which may be useful.

In, I think, #28 the OP says they were having difficulty finding a solicitor to take this on because they'd been advised a "hack squat" was unlikely to result in back injury.

This is probably correct. The OP persists in describing the offending exercise as a "hack squat" (presumably this is what the personal trainer told them) but what was described in the OP is not a hack squat. A "hack squat" is where the weighted barbell is held at arms length behind the back, the barbell being roughly level with the base of the buttocks. This exercise reduces the load on the back.

The exercise described by the OP, where the barbell is supported on the shoulders behind the neck, is just an ordinary squat or "back squat". This can place an excessive load on the back depending on how low on the shoulders the bar is held. By persisting in referring to the exercise as a "hack squat", the OP may be inadvertently understating the risk of back injury the PT was asking them to take.

What I'm not sure about is whether a hack squat might place greater stress on the knees than a back squat, which the PT may have been trying to avoid if they knew the OP had knee problems.

The OP may be well advised to carry out some research on "hack" and "back" squats to confirm for themselves what I'm saying.

If the PT described the exercise as a "hack squat", it might lead me to question whether they are qualified to supervise weight training sessions with somebody with an injury history.

PS - I'm aware this post is late in the day, but hopefully it will assist the OP

[NOCAB]

Hi and many many thanks for this. Sorry for the late reply. You are indeed correct re the hack squat and the back squat. The PT has me doing both but the injury was caused by the wright on my shoulders. The PT has sworn in a statement that the gym does not have the necessary machines to do either exercise but I have written confirmation stating otherwise plus each exercise can be carried out using free weights which again the gym has. In both cases the PT has clearly not taken into account pre existing injuries to my knees and back yet claims to have reviewed my medical records prior to training beginning (again a lie which can be proved). He then claims to have created a training plan aligned to my aliments but has conveniently mislaid them ( another lie ). If he has deleted it was it deleted from the source ? If so and he emailed it where is the email and attached copy and equally how can he have done this when he says given he asks for my medical records 3 weeks after starting training !!

his statement is hugely flawed and I will be discussing with a barrister shortly

cheers

[Manxman]

Hi Nocab

OK - glad it may have been of help but sounds like you are aware of the issue as to what exercise(s) it was (were).

Good luck with legal advice. No doubt they'll advise about medical reports etc.

Have you actually seen a physio to advise you about your injury history and what exercises may or may not be advisable? Where I live you can self-refer to a NHS physio (or via your GP). As a former NHS manager I'd recommend this, or you may wish to pay privately (c £50?) to see a specialist sports physio. Discuss with your lawyer so as not to prejudice any claim you may have though.

I suffer from periodic episodes of lower back problems for over 40 years now and also still do quite a bit of weight-training. I know to be very careful about the weights I lift and what exercises I can do. I'm no expert, but if I recall your OP correctly I'd question whether your PT was sensible in increasing by the weight you mention, especially if you are inexperienced and have a history of injury. If you were using an Olympic bar that weighs 25kg itself before you put disks on it! A "standard" bar will be lighter but still feel heavy if you're new to weights.

Good luck

(Oh - I'm sorry I didn't join the forum last year when you first posted as I may have been of more help).

EDIT: Yeah - a 20kg increase sounds like a rather large jump to me...

[NOCAB]

Hi thanks MANXMAN.

Solicitor has now brought in counsel to discuss next steps.

They are extremely concerned that the PT has sworn on a statement of truth, and in that statement he states you can't do a hack or back squat without a special machine, which is a complete lie and really does bring into question his abilities as a PT. If he doesn't know how to use the equipment he clearly has no idea of the impact these exercises can have and is clearly not qualified to act as a PT.

The PT has equally claimed to have produced a Training Plan but never did this, and now coincidentally says he has mislaid it. Yeah right, no he never produced one and the burden of proof will be on him to convince a judge (should it get as far as court which I suspect it will) as to the contents of this PT plan and why he would have deleted it.

The PT has also confirmed in his statement of truth that he asked for and saw my medical records before starting my training which he clearly didn't and I can prove this by a chronological set of text messages where he requests my 'medical record' pertaining to my back after he injured it, not before.

The PT has also lied about the number of sessions we actually had, which again can be proved, as well as the date he supplied his T+Cs.

Basically everything pretty well in his statement to his insurers is a pack of lies.

Counsel also believe they can go after the gym, as they failed to ensure gym members were trained in the use of the gym equipment and failed to ensure that their PTs created and kept a copy of client personal training plans.

This is going to take time but my counsel seem quietly confident.

[Manxman]

Ok -sounds like you're on top of it.

I agree that I'm very surprised that a qualified PT would state that a squat and a hack squat can only be carried out on a machine(!). Of course, there are machines that mimic each exercise (a Hack squat machine for one) or you can use a rack. But you can certainly do both with just a barbell. (Obviously, the greater the weight the more sensible it would be to use a machine or rack, but with a bad back and knee you probably wouldn't be lifting heavy weights*).

I'm sure a quick internet search or examination of weight training manuals etc would find many photos and illustrations of free weight hack squats with a barbell.

* A 20kg increase in weight on the bar would be 25% of the bodyweight of an average man. That doesn't include the weight of the bar and any disks already on it. A lot for an inexperienced lifter with a bad back and bad knee.

[Manxman]

And if he had seen(?) your medical records, all the more reason to question why you ended up injured!

good luck.

[NOCAB]

Hi thanks, sorry for long delay replying as this is ongoing. A Harley Street physio has now produced a report that also states that he believes my PT failed in his duty of care towards me having not produced a PARQ or a Personal Training Plan so this will hopefully add some weight. Now at the stage of seeking further medical evidence but quite what after 2.5 years plus they can assess now I have no idea, but will happily see any medical experts and describe what happened and the unbelievable pain which developed afterwards.