VT traps to be aware of ?

[Amethyst]

Posted on behalf of a new user; ( have asked for a copy of the agreement )


I was wondering if somebody could advise me on voluntary termination on car finance.

I purchased a 12 plate toyota yaris on the 12th January 2015 at Arnold Clark. I've had no issues with car until Monday when the drivers window would not go up, I contacted western Toyota and luckily the car had 9 days left on the warranty so they fixed it for free. My daughter is disabled and at the time I purchased the toyota she was not entitled to a mobility car but things have changed and now she is entitled to one.

The finance on the toyota is in my dad's name as I'm my daughter's carer therefor I do not work and cannot get that amount of credit but the car is registered to me through the DVLA. I pay £175 a month to my dad and the direct debt comes out my dad's bank account I also pay the insurance and break down cover for the car which comes out my bank account.

I was asking one of the sales men about motability and he asked to see the finance agreement which is will Barclays, he told me that I could ask for voluntary termination on the contract but would probably have to pay about £500 to make the payments up to the 50% level which is fine. He made it seems very black and white but having been on your forums I see this is not the case. In the two and a half years I've had the car it's been serviced and mot every year the car does have a few scratches on it but is in good condition and has done 46, 255 miles which the sales man told me is nothing on a 5 year old car. The warranty runs out on the 4th July 2017 so if anything else goes wrong I'll need to pay for it.

My dad is 75 years old and I explained what the salesman told me and my dad is willing to phone Barclays and ask for a voluntary termination settlement but having read up about it, it seems Barclays can send out threatening letters about mileage and the condition of the car. I don't want my dad getting upset or stressed out if they do this but if my daughter can now get a mobility car I would prefer to do this and it would also get my dad out of the finance agreement especially at his age. I would really appreciate if someone could advise me on what to do to go about this and if there's any chance they could try and get more money from me.

[xs2man]

Re: VT traps to be aware of ?

It's not so much the mileage that the car has now, as much as the mileage accrued throughout the contract that matters. If the car has done less miles than allowed in the agreement, then there is no need to worry about extra payments on this front.

As far as overall car condition is concerned, regular servicing, with history, is always a requirement basically, so it's good that is done.

As for condtion of other parts of the car, BMW explained to me that they used BVRLA guidelines when determining such things. So perhaps Barclays would use a similar reference document to assess the condition. Here is what BVRLA say (as best as I can make out just now).

When taking a lease car finance option, you have a responsibility to return the car to the finance company in as good a condition as possible. The car will be inspected for damage at the end of the contract and any damage classed as ‘excessive wear and tear’ may incur a penalty to repair the damage. Obviously, having a car for 2 or 3 years is a long time and the inevitable few marks will appear from stone chips etc, so the BVLA (British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association) created a guide to what constitutes as fair wear and tear.Follow these rules as a guide*

1. The car should be returned in a safe and roadworthy condition, with all the appropriate documentation, spare keys and equipment.
2. Cars should be serviced according to the manufacturers service schedule. Books should be stamped at the time of service to keep the history of the car.
3. Before the car is returned, the car should be in a clean condition to allow a thorough inspection of the car.

Brief Guide to Fair Wear and Tear*

1. Windscreen
   Acceptable - Small scratches outside of drivers eye sight.
   Unacceptable - Holes, chips and cracks in the glass, and scratches inside the drivers direct line of sight.
2. Wheels
   Acceptable - Minor scuffage upto 25mm in length. Wheels also meet minimum legal requirements.
   Unacceptable - Scoring and other damage to wheel surface. Damage to side walls or uneven tread wear.
3. Wing Mirrors
   Acceptable - Minor scuffage as long as no paintwork is damaged.
   Unacceptable - Missing, damaged, or cracked wing mirrors.
4. Bumpers
   Acceptable - Minnor scuffing upto 25mm in length.
   Unaccepable - Deep scuffs where paint is broken, dented and cracked areas.
5. Bodywork
   Acceptable - Small areas of chipping. Light scratches up to 25mm in length, relative to the vehicle’s age. Dents up to 10mm providing paint is not broken.
   Unaccepable - Stone chips or scratches over 25mm in length that have exposed the bare metal or primer or have rusted. Any impact damage. Multiple dents on a single panel.
6. Decals
   Acceptable - All decals need to be removed and all glue residue removed.
   Unacceptable - Any damage caused by the removal of such badges and advertising.
7. Interior Upholstery
   Acceptable - Should be clean and tidy, with only slight wear and soiling through normal use.
   Unacceptable - Burns, tears or permanent staining. Any damage caused by the fitting of equipment such as mobile phones.

* Different finance companies imply different standards of what they see as Fair Wear and Tear.

As said though, this is just a guide, so don't take this as gospel.

Some smaller scratches and things might be taken out with a good polish. So it might be worth asking a local detailers advice on areas that might not require paint, but are maybe larger than allowed according to the guidelines. The guy who inspected my car seemed to pay particular attention to the wheels. They had been refurbished by BMW just weeks before, so looked immaculate to me, but he picked up on some tiny imperfections from the refurb. And I mean seriously tiny. I am usually very attentive to my vehicles condition and I didn't clock these imperfections. They certainly wouldn't show up in a photo. On the other hand, he did miss some scratches that would have likely failed the guidelines.

If they are worried about the warranty running out, it may be possible to extend this warranty through Toyota. And it may not be overly expensive. So might be worth looking into if they are too fearful of going down the VT route. Or it might be worth seeing what the likes of We Buy Any Car or similar would offer for the car. They may offer enough to pay off the finance as is, and then they would be free and clear and not have to worry about mileage or condition once WBAC inspects the car and gives the price.

[Linznlou]

Re: VT traps to be aware of ?

Hi thanks for your reply. I bought the car with 26,693 miles on it, it has now done 49,266 so I think I've done 22, 573 miles over 29/30 months. I can't seem to find anything on the agreement staying a mileage but I think I'm just not reading it properly. We buy any car would offer me £4000 for the car but having got a statement in February 2017 it states I still have £6,412 to pay so I don't think this would help me. I really appreciate all the advise as I've never heard of voluntary termination before and I'm trying to find out the most I can if I decide to go ahead with this.
Many thanks

[R0b]

Re: VT traps to be aware of ?

Barclays are likely to carry out an inspection according to the BVRLA guidelines, generally because Manheim (auctioneers) offer a de-fleet service which part of that service is an inspection according to the BVRLA guidelines. There's a number of issues with applying those guidelines to personal consumer hire purchase agreements because for starters, the CCA only requires you to return the car in a reasonable condition, not above average or good or very good, just reasonable. The other issue is that the guidelines don't factor in the age and use of the car e.g. if you have a car for 4 years the guidelines would apply the same principle of what is acceptable/unacceptable - it doesn't take into account the age of the vehicle and the likelihood that there will probably be more fair wear and tear by the time 4 years have passed than what 6 months have passed.

Honestly, doing a VT is not always straightforward and lenders will try and trip you up at every turn. It depends on your willpower and who will show their hand first. But at the same time if you come to the end of the agreement and you return the car over the agreed mileage you will have to pay for it, there's no recourse. Equally, if the contract says you need to return the car in good condition at the end of the hire period and you return it and don't then you will be liable for damages - no ifs or buts I'm afraid, unless you purchase the car.

If you've not read it already I would suggest your starting point is here http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...on-Your-rights

[xs2man]

Re: VT traps to be aware of ?

Hi thanks for your reply. I bought the car with 26,693 miles on it, it has now done 49,266 so I think I've done 22, 573 miles over 29/30 months. I can't seem to find anything on the agreement staying a mileage but I think I'm just not reading it properly. We buy any car would offer me £4000 for the car but having got a statement in February 2017 it states I still have £6,412 to pay so I don't think this would help me. I really appreciate all the advise as I've never heard of voluntary termination before and I'm trying to find out the most I can if I decide to go ahead with this.
Many thanks

It depends on what the total purchase price was, including interest, as to how far away you will be for a VT. If the total cost, including interest and fees, is £12,824, then it sounds like you'd be at the 50% mark. Alternatively, if the total cost was £10k, for example, then you are £1,412 from the 50% mark. So it really depends on what the finance agreement states regarding total costs and such.

R0b is the guy who will be able to help the most here. Have a good read of your contract, and look at all the mentions of money. If you can put them up here, it will help (like how much the car cost, how much interest is charged, total payable amount, how much deposit you paid and how much the monthly payments were, the term, and the final payment). That would give us a better idea of where you are in the contract, and what the best way forward might be.

But as R0b said, it is not always straightforward, and if you are looking to "de-stress" your Dad, VT might not be the way forward in all honesty, due to the games finance companies often play.

As R0b states, have a read here: http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...on-Your-rights

Also, it might be worth having a read of other peoples threads regarding their experiences. There is likely to be one or two from Barclays, but other finance companies are mentioned too.

[Linznlou]

Re: VT traps to be aware of ?

Hi guys, I've taken photos of the agreement with Barclays but I've emailed it because I can't seem to find a way to put it up here sorry I'm not very good at things like this. When I bought my toyota I traded in my 09 plate Peugeot 207 as the engine was knackered I had 13 months left to pay on the Peugeot so I had to carry £1,300 over to the toyota agreement but to answer some of the questions you have asked
Yaris cost me £6,988
Interest charged 4.25% over 5 years
Deposit £100 but they gave me £2000 back for my Peugeot which I'm not sure what this went towards
Monthly payments £175
Final payment £472
I'm not doing this to for my dad it's because my daughter is now entitled to a mobility car and I wouldn't be any worse of a month than I am paying for my toyota I just wouldn't have the worry of repairs any more. Thanks again everyone hopefully you will get to see the emailed copies of my dad's agreement, sorry for being a pain.

[Linznlou]

Re: VT traps to be aware of ?

Just to add guys, the man at toyota said I was about £500 of my 50% mark so has told me to get my dad to phone Barclays and ask for a VT settlement fee? My dad is going to do this on Tuesday and say to them when were together that he gives permission for them to speak to me about this matter.

[Linznlou]

Re: VT traps to be aware of ?

Hi guys sorry to bother you but did anyone manage to see the emails I sent?
I've answered some of the questions that you asked about the car.

[R0b]

Re: VT traps to be aware of ?

I don't think there is anything else to add - your aware of what might happen with threats by lenders so is a question of whether you want to progress it or not. The condition of the car is very much subjective and again I would refer you back to the guidance on VT.

[xs2man]

Re: VT traps to be aware of ?

My math could be wrong here (probably is), but is this how it's structured?

Toyota Yaris
Trade in	Pug 207 Value	£2,000.00
Existing finance	From Pug	-£1,300.00
deposit	Paid by you	£100.00
Total Deposit	Total of above	£800.00
payments	60 x 175	£10,500.00
Final Payment		£472.00
Total Cost	Deposit + payments + final payment	£11,772.00
50% Mark	Half of Total	£5,886.00
Reach 50% mark	Months paid until you reach 50%	29.06

Is this a straight HP deal rather than a PCP then? If my calculations are correct, you have already paid more than half the total amount payable, as you should have made the 30th payment by now, and so should be able to VT immediately, without any further penalty. Furthermore, if this is a straight HP agreement, then there should be no mileage stipulation either. However, the car should still be in good condition I would assume.

However, I am assuming here that the £2000 you got for your 207, £1300 went to settling the old finance, leaving £700 towards this agreement. So add on the £100 you paid, for a total deposit of £800.

I could be wrong though, as I just did a quick excel spreadsheet calculation to work that out, so you should double check how much you have paid already yourself. And it should be in the agreement what the total amount payable is too, so you should check it all lines up.