Excess mileage charges on a PCP agreement

[RachaelMcQ]

Hello [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION],

I have joined this forum as I confused with regards to my rights.

I have recently confirmed to my finance company that I wish to return my car under the Voluntary termination agreement. They sent me a slip to sign and send back stating that I agreed to pay any charges in relation to damage or excess mileage. I replied to them to confirm that I wouldn't sign this agreement as I believe that I am not liable to do so having read some threads on here.

I have had a reply today to say this is not true and that I am not covered by the T&Cs of the CCA I am covered by the T&Cs of my finance agreement which states excess mileage would be payable.

I asked her to confirm her understanding in writing but all she has sent me is a copy of my agreement and highlighted the points she feels are relevant. Which is the section about excess mileage being charged at 8p a mile, but then she has highlighted a section that states the following:

"You have the right to end this agreement. To do so, you should write to the person you make your payments to. They will then be entitled to the return of the good and to half the total amount payable under this agreement. If you have already paid at least this amount plus any overdue instalment's and have taken reasonable care of the goods, you will not have to pay any more."

I have paid over 50% so surly this means I don't have to pay anymore but she says that is incorrect. I feel that the T&Cs contradict each other in sections regarding excess mileage and the VT sections.

I don't think they will take the car back until I have signed to say I agree, and I need to car gone, but am at a total loss as to what to do and where I stand, as I have read a lot of these forums but I am not sure of the outcome.

I have seen some of the draft letters with regards to this and have already sent some of the wording onto them when I requested that I terminate but they don't appear to take any notice. The finance company is RCI Nissan Finance.

Any help anybody could give me would be brilliant as I am a total loss as to where to go as I just want rid of the car, but I don't know my rights.

Thanks
Rachael

[R0b]

Re: Excess mileage charges on a PCP agreement

This is a typical stance by lenders trying to extract more monies from you whatever way possible. They tend to rely on those who do not know their rights and without any real legal understanding.

Did you send the voluntary termination letter as a starting point, and has RCI actually said that they won't collect the car unless you sign their paperwork? Also, is the car sitting on your driveway or on a public road? Either way, if they refuse then you do have one option of getting rid of the car which should hopefully give them a kick up the backside to get moving, though they I've not come across RCI before so I don't know exactly how they will react.

If you choose to, you can use the letter below and adapt it to suit your situation then send it to RCI. Without getting too technical and explain why the letter is relevant, when the agreement has ended you no longer have permission to use the goods despite it being in your possession and if you do something without permission, the lender can sue you for interference with its goods.

Now, under the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977, where a person is in possession of goods involuntarily and they know who the owner is, they can send a notice to the owner and request them to collect the goods within a reasonable period of time - from a legal perspective, 14 days is usually considered a reasonable time. If the owner doesn't respond within the reasonable time then you have a lawfully valid defence to sell the goods, deduct expenses and costs associated with the sale, and any proceeds after that should be returned to the owner. However, do note that if any costs are owed by the lender to you before the letter is sent, then you must give a minimum of 3 months notice (hence the reason why the letter says charges beginning on the day after the letter to avoid this)

The letter has been known to work against lenders but its not guaranteed and if the 14 days passes and they do nothing then you are free to sell it and you won't be liable to account for any of their losses but you can't spend their proceeds.

Your alternative option is to simply send letters back and forth and more than likely get nowhere. Hope this helps

-----------------------------------------

NOTICE OF INTENTION TO SELL GOODS UNDER THE TORTS (INTERFERENCE WITH GOODS) ACT 1977

Dear Sir or Madam,

Agreement number:
Vehicle Registration:

I writing in in relation with the above matter and in connection with giving notice to voluntarily terminate my hire purchase agreement. Your vehicle is currently parked on my drive and despite a number of requests to arrange collection, you have so far refused to do anything about it. Your vehicle is no longer authorised to remain on my property and continued refusal to remove it will constitute a trespass. In particular, following my notice to terminate the agreement, a reasonable time was given time to collect the vehicle yet regrettably, this appears to have been ignored.

In accordance with section 12 of the above Act, this letter is intended to give notice that unless the vehicle is collected by [14 DAYS FROM DATE OF LETTER] 2017, the vehicle will be deemed as abandoned and arrangements shall be made for it to be sold at the nearest auction and, I will not be liable for any losses suffered by you as a result of the vehicle being sold. I am lawfully entitled to deduct any costs associated with the sale of the vehicle including storage costs, in which case, a charge of £10 per day shall be levied (beginning on the day after the date of this letter) until the vehicle is removed and sold. Once the vehicle has been sold, I will contact you further to arrange for the remaining proceeds to be transferred to a bank account of your choosing.

The vehicle is available for collection from my address at the head of this letter and I would suggest that you contact me on [NUMBER] to arrange a suitable time.

I look forward to hearing from you by [DATE].

[Marco11]

Re: Excess mileage charges on a PCP agreement

Hi [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION], I know this topic has been covered before but....I have recently Voluntarily terminated a pcp agreement on a car with black horse finance. I did this in writing in accordance with section 99 of the consumer credit act 1974. Approximately one week later I received a response from black horse acknowledging my VT letter but there was also a form to fill out to confirm the voluntary termination, I filled this in out of courtesy but I did not sign the form because a section of it was to accept liability for any damage etc to the car. The car was in great condition with full service history and well below the agreed mileage. Black horse have now returned this form saying that 'if I don't sign the form then they will not accept the voluntary termination'. I have already dropped the car off at the auction and no checks were carried out on the car regarding condition etc I simply handed the keys over with the log book and service record etc and signed a vehicle/documents receipt for the keys, v5 etc but no condition report whatsoever. I have taken lots of date stamped pictures of the car and relevant documents etc.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the impression that by me writing a letter to terminate the agreement that I don't have to sign anything from the finance company? And how do I respond to the return of this form? Thank you in advance for any advice it's very much appreciated!

[RachaelMcQ]

Re: Excess mileage charges on a PCP agreement

Hi [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION]

Thanks for your response. They are just not responding to my emails, I had sent them the Vt letter I found on here in an email and heard nothing back so I called them and the response I got was "we'll have you signed the form" then she went on to tell me how I was wrong and the information I had was incorrect as I have to pay the excess mileage as it's stated in my contract. Which to me seems to contradict itself.

I was maybe going to send the other letter disputing the mileage and see where that got me. The car is on my drive not on the road.

From experience do lenders tend to give in or do most people end up paying?

Thanks
Rachael

[xs2man]

Re: Excess mileage charges on a PCP agreement

It's difficult to say what most people do, as most threads kind of die without update it appears.

I'm going through similar myself with BMWFS. What I will say is if it is only a couple hundred quid, I would personally pay it and be done with it.

Mine is near a couple grand so worth fighting though. BUT, they have put a marker against my credit file, which has destroyed my rating, and my credit cards have mostly reduced my limits as a result. And I cannot get another card for love nor money.

They have properly dragged their heels and are seemingly unwilling to take me to court over it. Which suggests they know they can't win, but are happy to destroy my credit rating until such a time as I give in. Which will not happen and my solicitor is sending them a strongly worded letter at the moment.

Have a look at my thread on here for an insight as to how this might play out over the next few months. Then decide what you want to do going forward. I have seen people arguing over less than £100 in excess mileage. Which is nothing. I would just pay that. But if you are happy to play the game, which may take many months, you shouldn't lose. But you may have to be willing to take them to court over it.

[R0b]

Re: Excess mileage charges on a PCP agreement

@Marco11 it's really a case of who has the determination to win the most, a game of chance and who will crack first. I personally hate playing ping pong and sending correspondence back and forth where no one is backing down so if you fele your at that stage you could send a final letter and explain that you won't enter into any further correspondence and if they feel that their claim is warranted then issue court proceedings which you will defend. Obviously it is also worth keeping an eye on your credit report as that is where they might hit you - and if they do then your only real option of getting around this plus with some compensation, is to bring legal proceedings yourself. Or you can pay up before they issue a default.

@RachaelMcQ as Xs2man has suggested, its difficult to know as almost all of these issues on here have been left open with the original poster going AWOL and not updating us. That could either be that they have settled the matter or nothing has happened any further, but it is just pure speculation. As I tell everyone on here, I've yet to see any real court claim find in favour of the lenders (though there's been one or two who have posted on here saying they've received a court claim but we are talking £5k+ for excess mileage) so to me it is all bluff from the lender and if they were actually rightfully entitled to it, there would be numerous ongoing court cases right now but there is pretty much no case that I am aware of.

It seems BMW and Mercedes are common culprits of possibly issuing defaults on your credit report so you need to be aware of that. I had my HP with Santander and they did the same who issued a default, they refused to take it off and I issued a claim against them and the result was that they settled within weeks (see below). Each lender is different, some might fight it or some may cave in as its not worth the money but its a question of whether you have nerves of steel.