PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

**R0b** · 23rd May 2017, 08:30:AM

Re: PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

I have concerns about anything being put on my credit file - is that allowed?

Yes but nothing adverse so some companies will mark your account as settled and the reason will be put down as VT

I also think they are trying it on with the GAP insurance claim

Alot of the time the GAP insurance is incorporated into the finance agreement and you are paying one monthly instalment, if that is the case then it is arguable that the GAP does not need to be paid for, unless there are specific and separate terms regarding the GAP and how it should be paid on termination but even then, you may still be able to argue it was all part of the total amount payable.

The car has a few small stone chips, scratches and then more serious damage to wheels - does any one have advice on wear and tear? Should I get any work done to the car before returning it?

Always a subjective question, stone chips from driving will be within the range of W&T, what do you consider serious damage to the wheels as being? It also depends on the age of the car and whether you obtained it brand new or second hand

I have also seen in another document that they want me to sign their paper work to begin the VT and when the car is collected (they want to charge for this - can they?) sign more paper work. I don't feel comfortable signing / using any of their documents.

There's no obligation to sign anything of theirs.

**wdk1866** · 23rd May 2017, 16:44:PM

Re: PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

Hi

thanks for the reply

i am replying on my phone so unable (more me than the phone) to answer each point as you have R0b.

thanks for the clarity on the "v" on my credit file. Makes sense

GAP is rolled into one agreement with the car. That is what made me think when I trigger the VT all payments should stop. I am of course happy to pay it if is part of my agreement.

W&T - car was second hand from Alfa Romeo set up as a PCP it is a 13 plate with 56k miles on the clock. Both front alloys have some nasty scratches on that are over 5cm long (serious to me

). I have some rear bump scratches as well that I am tempted sort before returning the car. My thoughts are while subjective I I can reduce the amount of questionable damage it can only help.

Thanks for clarity on documents

Thanks

**wdk1866** · 11th October 2017, 20:42:PM

Re: PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

for anyone that has followed this thread -

FCA automotive services have written to me 14 weeks after collecting the car claiming I owe just under £400

interestingly in the letter they have included a table stating various damage and and collection charges the bottom line of the table has "total £507.80"

underneath the table it then says

"in order to complete your VT you must pay all liabilities due, these consist of:

Contractual amounts due : £0
Multipart Settlement: £164.54 (GAP insurance)
Damages and Recharges: £235
Payments Dishonoured: £0
Total Liability: £399.54

we will automatically debit the amount from your account..."

So its interesting there is a difference between damages in the first table and liability charges - has anyone else experienced this?

I have decided to dispute the full amount and have emailed them with the following

I am writing to you in response to your recent letter dated 4/10/17 i received today (11/10/17) linked to agreement number xxxxxxxxx. I am disputing the total amount you are claiming I am liable for £399.54, which is broken down in the following way

MultiPart Settlement - £164.54
Damage and Recharges - (claimed damages £165, collection £70)

I do not give permission to debit any amount from my account until the dispute is settled.

With regards to the Multipart settlement. My agreement is rolled in to a single contract with you which once I have paid the over the 50% of that total agreement I can Voluntary Terminate and under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 explicitly states that, my liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is strictly prohibited by the Act.

in response to your claimed damages. As the car was purchased second hand from xxxxxxxx with 13,198 miles on the odometer, please provide photographic evidence that the damage happened while in my possession and not previous ownership? Please also provide photographic and invoice evidence that claimed actions have been carried out?

With regards to the collection fee as per my previous comment, I have paid over the 50% point of my financial credit agreement and have no obligation to any further fees. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 explicitly states that, my liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is strictly prohibited by the Act. This also extends to the collection of the vehicle which I am under no obligation to pay for.

I would be keen to hear what people think and what other peoples experience has been?

Thanks all

**wdk1866** · 16th October 2017, 14:53:PM

Re: PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

Hi @R0b – I would love advice on how to respond to the below, if you are feeling generous a draft letter would be amazing J. I am probably not going to argue to gap insurance payment any more and would be willing to pay that, but would want to concede this until at a final stage of agreement.

I responded to FCA Automotive services last week as per my previous post, they have just come back to me with the below,
Thank you for your request to investigate your Outstanding Liabilities.

Please find attached the following:

[1] Our reply to your dispute.
[2] Copy of the BCA Collection report.
[3] Copy of the BCA Condition report.

If you wish to discuss any of the above in further detail, please use the details below.

Contents of Attachment 1

Thank you for your request to investigate your outstanding liabilities charges.
The role of the BCA collection agent is to check all the relevant documentation; all kits/items that should be present are & conduct a BVRLA inspection. The BCA agent will then provide a hard copy report that states the damage and prices (item/total) and hand to the customer to sign. The inspection report will also provide an inspection id that may be used for online access to view the report in full.
Our agents at BCA conducted an onsite inspection which follows the guidelines set by the governing body British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association (BVRLA). The Finance agreement that you signed, indicates that the vehicle should be looked after which allows customers to use authorise repair centres to correct any issues prior to the vehicle being collected or delivered to our agents.
The inspection report identified £437.80 of damages. The damage falls under the unfair wear and tear guidelines set by the BVRLA. As a goodwill gesture we previously removed £272.80 (62%) prior to sending the original recharge letter from your damage charge obligation. At this moment in time we are unable to reduce your damage charge any further.
Your liability charge is £399.54.
Please see the remaining damage images from the inspection report. Only faults deemed unfair wear and tear by the BVRLA guidelines were charged for.
Please note the primary cost of the damage reflects the loss of value to the vehicle, and not the cost to repair.

Customer Q1: With regards to the Multipart settlement. My agreement is rolled in to a single contract with you which once I have paid the over the 50% of that total agreement I can Voluntary Terminate and under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 explicitly states that, my liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is strictly prohibited by the Act.

Reply Q1: The GAP insurance (value added products) is a separate finance to the vehicle finance. Although you terminated your agreement early the loan you requested to finance the product still needs to be paid. I have already emailed to you how the multipart monthly payments were worked out. Please note, the finance company only provides the loan, not the end product (Insurance. Warranty etc.), if you have entered into a VT of your agreement, it may be useful to contact the provider of the service and enquire if they provide refunds.

Customer Q2: in response to your claimed damages. As the car was purchased second hand from Autoworld Chesterfield with 13,198 miles on the odometer, please provide photographic evidence that the damage happened while in my possession and not previous ownership? Please also provide photographic and invoice evidence that claimed actions have been carried out?
Reply Q2: The BVRLA defines fair wear and tear; our agents are accredited by them and the vehicle was inspected by our agents using the BVRLA standard. Only faults deemed unfair wear and tear by the BVRLA guidelines were charged for. Our dealerships ensure all vehicles are valeted and any damage rectified prior to leasing out to our customers. Please see snapshot of images below regarding the damage highlighted in the report. I have added the BVRLA standard above each image so that you can see what the required BVRLA standard requirements are.

Customer Q3: With regards to the collection fee as per my previous comment, I have paid over the 50% point of my financial credit agreement and have no obligation to any further fees. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 explicitly states that, my liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is strictly prohibited by the Act. This also extends to the collection of the vehicle which I am under no obligation to pay for.
Customer Q3: Please refer to your finance agreement you signed at point of sale which states that: “Goods collection fee on voluntary termination of the HP agreement by you - £70.00.” I have attached a copy of the finance agreement with this letter. This fee is for the collection of the vehicle by our agents on termination of the HP agreement. Your welcome pack also states that collection of Voluntary Terminated Vehicles £70 (Inc. VAT). Your finance agreement states that you have the right to end the agreement as long as you have paid at least half the total amount payable plus any overdue payment and have taken reasonable care of the goods.

Customer Q4: Given the speed of receipt of your original letter i would be more than happy to correspond via email to resolve this matter for all parties as quickly as possible,
Reply Q4: We try to ensure that recharge letters are sent out within the 6-8 week period but this is not always possible and we apologise for any inconvenience caused. I hope you can understand this is not a legal or contractual obligation, and in some circumstances this timeframe may not be met due to unforeseen circumstances or peak periods in vehicle collections. However, the content of the letter outlines the costs incurred as detailed in the report initially provided. The report also detailed an access code that would permit you to review the content of the report on-line at any time, not only to review the damages but also the cost. When you emailed in regarding the Multipart payments and how this was worked out we responded within 3 working days of your email.
The Finance agreement that you signed, indicates that the vehicle should be looked after which allows customers to use authorise repair centres to correct any issues prior to the vehicle being collected or delivered to our agents. Part of the terms and conditions of your finance contract are to service and maintain the vehicle according to the manufacturer’s guidelines. The vehicle should be returned in a clean condition inside and out.

**Kati** · 17th October 2017, 12:15:PM

Re: PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

tagging [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] again xx

**R0b** · 17th October 2017, 12:35:PM

Re: PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

I'm afraid you'll have to start drafting something yourself, happy to add comments after that - feeling under the weather today so brain function isn't at its best.

Reply Q1: The GAP insurance (value added products) is a separate finance to the vehicle finance. Although you terminated your agreement early the loan you requested to finance the product still needs to be paid. I have already emailed to you how the multipart monthly payments were worked out. Please note, the finance company only provides the loan, not the end product (Insurance. Warranty etc.), if you have entered into a VT of your agreement, it may be useful to contact the provider of the service and enquire if they provide refunds.

I don't think we can disagree that its a value added product but if its supposed to be separate then why was it rolled into the total amount payable, with interest? Why did they not issue a separate GAP insurance document instead?! Arguably misleading if they aren't the end provider and then add their own interest to that amount, particular when the interest rate for that supplier could be lower. Anyway, by the by since you are happy to pay but do check with the supplier to see if you can obtain a refund.

Our dealerships ensure all vehicles are valeted and any damage rectified prior to leasing out to our customers. Please see snapshot of images below regarding the damage highlighted in the report. I have added the BVRLA standard above each image so that you can see what the required BVRLA standard requirements are.

All well and good saying the damage is rectified (I would beg to differ on this) as we can all say that, but where's the evidence? Remember, if they are claiming that there was damage on the vehicle and that it must have been caused by you then the onus is on them to prove that there was absolutely no damage on the vehicle when it passed into your hands, not you.

Customer Q3: Please refer to your finance agreement you signed at point of sale which states that: “Goods collection fee on voluntary termination of the HP agreement by you - £70.00.” I have attached a copy of the finance agreement with this letter. This fee is for the collection of the vehicle by our agents on termination of the HP agreement. Your welcome pack also states that collection of Voluntary Terminated Vehicles £70 (Inc. VAT). Your finance agreement states that you have the right to end the agreement as long as you have paid at least half the total amount payable plus any overdue payment and have taken reasonable care of the goods.

Just because its in the contract does not mean it is enforceable. Liability is limited under section 100, and section 173 does state that any additional liability whether direct or indirect and is contrary to the provisions of the CCA shall be void. The clause would be enforceable if you followed the agreement until the end of the hire period, but the CCA carves this out when you VT.

**wdk1866** · 17th October 2017, 21:09:PM

Re: PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

Hi [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION],

thank you so much for the above, i really appreciate your advice and help. I took your comments as the base to my response and tried to keep it short and to the point...unlike the previous posts

Hi,
Thank you for your patience while I review your response, to follow the flow of our previous correspondence
1. The GAP insurance agreement is misleading, if it is a value add product why is it rolled in to one agreement with interest? It should be separate agreement to avoid confusion.
2. I am still awaiting evidence from you can prove none of the damage you are claiming was on the car when it first passed in to my possession. Without this evidence your claim does not stand.
3. The collection charge is not enforceable, liability is limited under section 100, and section 173 does state that any additional liability whether direct or indirect and is contrary to the provisions of the CCA shall be void.

If you don't mind I will post their response when it arrives and seek your advice,

Thanks again R0b

**wdk1866** · 18th October 2017, 08:46:AM

Re: PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

Hi [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION],

Hope you are feeling better today. FCA Autoservices have replied already....

I will am ok to pay what i think is fair and appropriate to the condition of the car etc for me that would be the gap insurance (£164.54) and the two wheels (£90) as this damage was caused by me (not that they can actually prove it). What is your experience on trying to close this with a counter offer vs. them taking that and still pushing for the remainder? But ultimately I will listen to your advice...

Email and attachment below

Thank you

Dear

Thank you for your email, Please find attached our response.
If you still wish to dispute this, please raise a complaint with the BVRLA who will act as independent adjudicators regarding the damage charges, by going to the site in our letter.

Kind Regards,

There are 2 attachments

1. their response
2 the original contract

below is there response

Dear ,
Thank you for your request to investigate your outstanding liabilities charges.
Our agents at BCA conducted an onsite inspection which follows the guidelines set by the governing body British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association (BVRLA). The Finance agreement that you signed, indicates that the vehicle should be looked after which allows customers to use authorise repair centres to correct any issues prior to the vehicle being collected or delivered to our agents.

The inspection report identified £437.80 of damages. The damage falls under the unfair wear and tear guidelines set by the BVRLA. As a goodwill gesture we previously removed £272.80 (62%) prior to sending the original recharge letter from your damage charge obligation. At this moment in time we are unable to reduce your damage charge any further.

Your liability charge is £399.54. Only faults deemed unfair wear and tear by the BVRLA guidelines were charged for.

Customer Q1: The GAP insurance agreement is misleading, if it is a value add product why is it rolled in to one agreement with interest? It should be separate agreement to avoid confusion.
Reply Q1: At point of sale you signed a legal contract, and within the finance agreement itself it states, ‘By signing the agreement you declare: that you have received and have had an opportunity to consider and take away the pre-contract credit information form before signing the agreement and that an explanation has been given to you of the features of the agreement...’. As we are not present during the selection of the products & services, we may only conclude that by signing the contract all parties were fully satisfied.

Customer Q2: I am still awaiting evidence from you can prove none of the damage you are claiming was on the car when it first passed in to my possession. Without this evidence your claim does not stand.
Reply Q2: Our dealerships ensure all vehicles are valeted and any damage rectified prior to leasing out to our customers. Part of the terms and conditions of your finance contract are to service and maintain the vehicle according to the manufacturer’s guidelines. We would expect if you encounter any damage that you would contact the dealership to rectify the issue and update the finance company as a courtesy. However if you can provide written evidence that the damage was there prior to receiving the vehicle we will review your dispute again. The images I sent to you in my previous correspondence clearly showed the damage as highlighted by our agents.

Customer Q3: The collection charge is not enforceable, liability is limited under section 100, and section 173 does state that any additional liability whether direct or indirect and is contrary to the provisions of the CCA shall be void.
Reply Q3: Please refer to your finance agreement you signed at point of sale states that: “Goods collection fee on voluntary termination of the HP agreement by you - £70.00.” I have attached a copy of the finance agreement with this letter. This fee is for the collection of the vehicle by our agents on termination of the HP agreement. Your welcome pack also states that collection of Voluntary Terminated Vehicles £70 (Inc. VAT). If you still wish to dispute this, please raise a complaint with the BVRLA who will act as independent adjudicators regarding the damage charges, by going to the site below.

**R0b** · 18th October 2017, 13:27:PM

Re: PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

Whether you choose to offer a partial settlement is up to you. There is a template to this effect in the templates section that gives appropriate wording where you wish to concede on certain points. You have to be aware that some lenders might think that because you accept some liability then they might refuse your offer and continue to seek repayment of the full balance. Obviously they should take a pragmatic view but that is not always the case.

So it is up to you if you want to offer a partial payment in full and final settlement (make that clear), you may also want to consider that your offer of settlement is a one time deal only and if they reject the offer then you will not make any further offer to them.

You are in exactly the same position as many people on here and most lenders don't really do anything other than just a lot of puff, but it doesn't mean that they will never pursue you.

**wdk1866** · 24th October 2017, 20:58:PM

Re: PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

Hi [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION],

I thought I would update you with the outcome from trying to partially settle.

for reference to others i wrote the following email

Hi,

Thank you for the quick reply,

In the interests of time and energy for what I am sure is a relatively small claim for you and for me I am happy to pay for what I think is reasonable and fair. I am willing to make a one time and final offer to settle the previously mentioned disputes. Rather than include the BVLA and Financial Ombudsman.
My offer is details as below
1. Gap Insurance – I do not accept the grounds of your claim, but will settle this amount in full.
2. Claimed damages – The vehicle was maintained in a reasonable condition throughout the period of the agreement and therefore such damage charges you are claiming would amount to fair wear and tear . You are unable to provide any evidence that the vehicle was not passed to me in the condition you are describing which you must be able to do. However I am willing to offer you £90 for the damage to the two front wheels, which I accept did occur while in my possession but to be clear given the age and mileage of the car would still fall in to the bracket of fair wear and tear. The other damage did not occur in my possession and I will not pay for that.
3. Vehicle collection – I am very clear on my rights and that the collection charge is not enforceable, liability is limited under section 100, and section 173 does state that any additional liability whether direct or indirect and is contrary to the provisions of the CCA shall be void. However as a gesture of goodwill I will offer you 50% of the cost of collect.
My final offer to close this matter is £289.54

Please confirm by return that you agree to the payment above / this matter is now closed.

I can either call to provide details for payment or if you prefer please email me the necessary details and reference and I will arrange payment immediately.

They accepted this offer. Some of you may think I was mad to offer this much but it was an amount i was prepared to pay to "make it go away" especially as I am in the middle of buying a house and didn't want any funny business on my credit file.

Thank you for all the advice

W

**R0b** · 24th October 2017, 21:21:PM

Re: PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

Hi there, thanks for the update.

I can understand why you might want to settle this given your circumstances and I don't blame you. The main thing is that you've come to an agreement, but just make sure they don't mark or update your credit file in the meantime, though they shouldn't anyway.

I'm not advocating that you should always refuse to pay up, rather it is dependent on your circumstances and what you really feel you should do.

Good to hear its sorted anyway.

PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

PCP - Voluntary Termination with FCA Automotive Services

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