BMW VT Issues

**R0b** · 19th February 2016, 23:00:PM

Re: BMW VT Issues

Hi Mark,

VT is calculated as paying 50% of the total amount payable, including any interest. Does the email give the cash price with the dealer contributions deducted?
From what you have said sounds about right, except the problem is you have signed something which does not include what you were expecting. You could certainly argue that you only took out the finance on the basis of the contributions and the fact that this has been omitted from the agreement could amount to a misrepresentation. Its an arguable one but you would need to stand your ground and even invoke their ocmplaints process and threaten to take it to the ombudsman.

**mark1979** · 18th March 2016, 18:33:PM

Re: BMW VT Issues

BMW are standing their ground saying that this was a discount and not a deposit contribution even though they told me I only got it if I took their finance. They said that the two employees involved in the transaction no longer work there so they cannot be sure of what was said at the time.

Luckily I still have the salemans mobile number in my phone under "Mark BMW" so I decided to give him a call. He remember this as he was new to BMW and this was the first 6 Series he sold, he also remembers that I asked about paying cash when I was offered the lower price and he had to go and speak to his sales manager who told him that they could only do that deal if I took finance as it was a deposit contribution and not a straight discount. He said they would lose money if I paid in cash at the lower price.

So where do I go from here? Mark is happy to provide me with a written statement if required.

**Kati** · 18th March 2016, 18:38:PM

Re: BMW VT Issues

Originally posted by mark1979 View Post

BMW are standing their ground saying that this was a discount and not a deposit contribution even though they told me I only got it if I took their finance. They said that the two employees involved in the transaction no longer work there so they cannot be sure of what was said at the time.

Luckily I still have the salemans mobile number in my phone under "Mark BMW" so I decided to give him a call. He remember this as he was new to BMW and this was the first 6 Series he sold, he also remembers that I asked about paying cash when I was offered the lower price and he had to go and speak to his sales manager who told him that they could only do that deal if I took finance as it was a deposit contribution and not a straight discount. He said they would lose money if I paid in cash at the lower price.

So where do I go from here? Mark is happy to provide me with a written statement if required.

can you email me (see my signature) all the docs you have so I can post them up (redacted) for [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] ??

if you can get a 'witness statement' from Mark BMW it would be good

xx

**mark1979** · 18th March 2016, 18:51:PM

Re: BMW VT Issues

I can but I took them into the office with me a few weeks back and have left them there. I'll get them over to you on Monday.

What is the remedy if I am right and they are wrong? One of my work colleagues used to be a Finance Manager at a used car supermarket, he said that I may be able to return the car and they will have to refund me my deposit and all payments to date. Is this correct?

**R0b** · 19th March 2016, 15:17:PM

Re: BMW VT Issues

Hi Mark,

The documents would be helpful to understand, as for BMW standing their ground that doesn't surprise me to be honest. Save the email, print it out or keep copies just in case you delete it by mistake it will be an important piece of evidence you will need to retain. If the email says contributed, I am more inclined to say BMW will contribute as in put an amount or deposit towards the vehicle and there is a difference between contribute and discount/reduce the amount.

You should obtain a statement from the sales guy as soon as possible, preferably in an email so it will be more difficult to dispute. I am not so sure your work colleague per se, I can only think that what he is trying to get at is that you can claim misrepresentation, i.e. you were induced to enter the contract under false pretences. The value of the contract is expensive and so litigation will become just as costly so legal advice would definitely be recommended. The statement from the sales guy who can verify what happened will enhance your claim but I guess the overall route you take is entirely up to you.

I certainly wouldn't threaten legal action against them until you have all the evidence you need including the statement from the sales person.

**Kati** · 10th May 2016, 13:53:PM

Re: BMW VT Issues

[MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] xx

Attached Files

BMWredacted.pdf (537.6 KB, 1 view)

**R0b** · 10th May 2016, 14:18:PM

Re: BMW VT Issues

Thanks Kati, I'll see if I can take a look later, need to get my head round it first.

**R0b** · 11th May 2016, 07:31:AM

Re: BMW VT Issues

Originally posted by mark1979 View Post

I can but I took them into the office with me a few weeks back and have left them there. I'll get them over to you on Monday.

What is the remedy if I am right and they are wrong? One of my work colleagues used to be a Finance Manager at a used car supermarket, he said that I may be able to return the car and they will have to refund me my deposit and all payments to date. Is this correct?

Hi Mark, the information you have given is useful but there isn't any of the finance agreement so I am not able to understand what the total amount payable is I can see the deductions made and the deposits made which as far as I can see is £10,000 but without seeing the rest of the information, its difficult to help you any further and confirm who is correct.

**mark1979** · 18th May 2016, 10:32:AM

Re: BMW VT Issues

Apologies, I have just emailed Kati copies of all of the finance documentation.

I requested these from BMW Finance and two things have stuck out to me:

1. It would appear that my name was spelled incorrectly on the DD mandate. This has later been tip-exed out and corrected and then initialled with my initials. The problem is I didnt initial it!! I also requested a second set of docs for a different car bought at a later date from the same dealership, same issue, same amendment. I dont think this is grounds to claim that I was mislead or anything but I think it certainly highlights their dishonesty.
2. BMW finance are unable to supply me with a PCCI (SECCI) and say that they do not have this and that the dealership should hold this. When I last spoke to the dealership, they said they did not hold any of the finance docs. I have since requested them again.

Response from BMW Finance relating to PCCI:

Good morning,

Thank you for your email.

I have checked with my colleague and we don’t hold copies of this on your agreement. It would be the supplying retailer that would have a copy of this for you.

Kind regards,

BMW Financial Services

**Kati** · 18th May 2016, 13:59:PM

Re: BMW VT Issues

....

Attached Files

BMW Vt.pdf (2.76 MB, 1 view)

**mark1979** · 25th May 2016, 06:26:AM

Re: BMW VT Issues

It seems that neither BMW Finance or Sytner BMW want to discuss this with me. BMW Finance simply passed the buck and told me to take this up with the dealership, and the dealership are just not responding to me at all!

At which point can I go to the FOS? I know you are supposed to exhaust the companies complaints procedure first but what if they simply ignore you?

**R0b** · 25th May 2016, 06:54:AM

Re: BMW VT Issues

Hi Mark,

You've submitted a complaint in writing to BMW or the dealer already? They have 8 weeks to respond otherwise you can go direct to the Ombudsman to complain. I suggest at that point they will start co-operating and responding to you.

BMW are responsible for the dealer as they are acting as an agent to the finance and so it is their responsibility to hold that information and failure to do so is a breach of statutory duty.

The other point is that if you have did not initial the DD Mandate then technically that is also illegal which should be pointed out too but as you've paid for the vehicle then there is no real issue here except for the fact that it was not done by yourself.

**mark1979** · 25th May 2016, 08:13:AM

Re: BMW VT Issues

Rob thanks. I think the main point with the DD issue is that it highlights their dishonesty as ultimately I am claiming that they miss sold to me. The fact that they went on to do the exact same thing again on another car they sold me some months later only further highlights this.

My written complaint to Sytner has been in for 3 weeks now. Their auto response said I should hear from someone within 2 working days. I even popped into the dealership to chase it and spoke with the General Sales Manager who was aware of it. He promised to call me back the next day, that was about 10 days ago!

**R0b** · 25th May 2016, 08:24:AM

Re: BMW VT Issues

Perhaps it is worth sending a copy of that complaint to BMW Finance, make them aware that if there is no response by either BMW or Sytner then you will be making a complaint to the Ombudsman. Remind them that BMW is ultimately the company responsible for Sytner as they are the creditor and should have all relevant paperwork. If you do not hear back from them with the outcome of their investigation within 8 weeks then you will forward your complaint without any further notice to the Ombudsman.

I think the complaint will have to go against BMW though as they are the persons responsible and not Sytner who are the agents acting in this. So it is important to make BMW aware of yur complaint or they will say they never received anything and you will need to wait up to another 8 weeks.

A gentle reminder to Synter too with similar wording above may also help.

BMW VT Issues

BMW VT Issues

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