Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

[Tomoland]

Hi, I'm a new member and loving this site?

After some advice, my son age 17 has had car insurance since feb 2012 paying £264 a month out of his £400 a month apprenticeship wage, not sure if I can put insurers name on here and won't until I'm told otherwise, he is on a black box scheme which monitors mileage and he had it at 3000, we were told that we would receive an email or text if he went over and pay to increase the mileage, I rang the insurer twice in the summer to check this out and was told it was a robust system and when he was within 300 miles of limit they would text or email us.

He is due to pay his last payment tomorrow and we have just received a phone call to say that: there system failed over summer and his insurance became invalid once he exceeded his mileage but they couldn't tell us when this was so he has been driving without insurance, they said we can either pay £6000 for the increased mileage or they will cancel his insurance from today but he will still have to pay tomorrow and he now loses his 1 yr no claim which he would have been entitled to in feb 2013?
does anyone know what I can do about this as he has paid a lot of money for 10 months and hasn't been insured. Can they treat people like this?

one very unhappy son:rolleyes:
Thanks

[TUTTSI]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

Hi and welcome to Legal Beagles.

If what you are stating is correct that they have told you that the system failed during the summer, Then how do they know he has gone over the limit and how can they charge £6000 and say he has been driving uninsured?


My gut feeling is that you should contact the CEO of the company as 2 + 2 = 5 here it is just not adding up.

Would your son not know what mileage he has done from the vehicle itself? and how cancel they cancel his insurance without them contacting your son that is absolute crap.

Yes, you can mention the insurance company just in case others have had a similar experience.

Hi, I'm a new member and loving this site?

After some advice, my son age 17 has had car insurance since feb 2012 paying £264 a month out of his £400 a month apprenticeship wage, not sure if I can put insurers name on here and won't until I'm told otherwise, he is on a black box scheme which monitors mileage and he had it at 3000, we were told that we would receive an email or text if he went over and pay to increase the mileage, I rang the insurer twice in the summer to check this out and was told it was a robust system and when he was within 300 miles of limit they would text or email us.

He is due to pay his last payment tomorrow and we have just received a phone call to say that: there system failed over summer and his insurance became invalid once he exceeded his mileage but they couldn't tell us when this was so he has been driving without insurance, they said we can either pay £6000 for the increased mileage or they will cancel his insurance from today but he will still have to pay tomorrow and he now loses his 1 yr no claim which he would have been entitled to in feb 2013?
does anyone know what I can do about this as he has paid a lot of money for 10 months and hasn't been insured. Can they treat people like this?

one very unhappy son:rolleyes:
Thanks

[Tomoland]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

Hi, it's Adrian Flux and he said they are ringing all customers that have been affected and either asking them to pay the difference or cancelling the insurance with no refund and loss of 1 yrs no claim discount.

my husband said the same as you about how do they know now he's gone over.
i was absolutely fuming when talking to them as they rang my son first and he was getting upset.
i said how funny you are contacting us now when he has 1 month left to pay, I've cancelled the direct debit for tomorrow but think itl still go through.

had he had an accident it would only have been then that we would have realised he wasn't insured.

[wales01man]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

If the Black box records the mileage is it now working and has the car exceeded the allowed mileage,
What a system needs looking into I think?

[Tomoland]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

If the Black box records the mileage is it now working and has the car exceeded the allowed mileage,
What a system needs looking into I think?

As far as we know the black box has always been charged up correctly, we did get a text to say it had been dislodged from the cradle but when I rang them they said they were having problems with texts and to ignore it.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

In the first instance you must send an urgent email complaint to the CEO. Set your complaint it out in short concise paragraphs. Don't forget the policy number and notes of people who you have spoken to and dates + times if you have. Sometimes insurance companies will have logged recordings of telephone calls.


Adrian Flux Insurance Services

David Flux Chief Executive

Email djflux@adrianflux.co.uk
Website http://www.adrianflux.co.uk
Social Media T

Address PE32 1HNM


As an aside how many miles was your son supposed to have driven to get to £6000?

I have also given you here the FOS to make a complaint to if you are unable to get any further with Adrian Flux, you normally can only complain to the FOS when you have had a final written notice from the company stating that they cannot rectify the matter.

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...insurance.html
technical note

motor insurance

Motor insurance is designed to provide cover against losses and liabilities that the driver may suffer in the event of an accident, theft or certain other events relating to their vehicle.

It provides financial compensation to cover liability for any injuries caused by the driver or owner of a vehicle to other people or their property.

It is compulsory by law to have motor insurance before using or keeping a motor vehicle on public roads.

Motor insurance covers private vehicles against specified risks depending on the type of policy. There are three types:
third party
This is the minimum legal requirement for all drivers. It provides cover in the event a driver becomes legally liable for injuring a third party or causing damage to a third party's property. It does not provide any cover for the driver's own vehicle.
third party, fire and theft
This includes the legal minimum insurance cover for driving - as well as basic cover against two non-driving risks - fire and theft.
comprehensive cover
This provides wider insurance cover - though not against every eventuality. It covers third party, fire and theft - as well as additional cover for some damage caused to the driver's own car.

We see complaints about all aspects of motor insurance including:
the sale of motor insurance
for example - complaints that an exclusion clause was not drawn to the attention of the policyholder at the time the insurance was taken out;
claims on motor insurance policies - where the insurer disputes liability for the claim
for example - complaints that the insurer says the policyholder left the keys in an unattended vehicle;
issues that arise during the settlement of claims - once the insurer has accepted that a claim is covered under the policy
for example - complaints that the insurer says the vehicle is worth less than the policyholder expects;
the administration of motor insurance policies
for example - complaints about whether or not an intermediary passed on the proof of the "no-claims discount" that the insurer wanted.



how we decide complaints about motor insurance
complaints involving the sale of motor insurance
complaints involving claims on motor insurance policies
complaints involving issues that arise during the settlement of claims
complaints involving the administration of motor insurance policies

ombudsman news features on motor insurance complaints
theft claims
issue 72, October 2008
quality of repairs
issue 79, September/October 2009
"non-disclosure"
issue 1, January 2001
issue 79, September/October 2009
disputes over vehicle valuations
issue 22, November 2002
issue 62, June /July 2007
issue 66, December 2007/January 2008
thefts after keys are left in cars
issue 4, April 2001
issue 37, May/June 2004

the sale of motor insurance

When a driver buys a motor insurance policy, the insurer, intermediary and policyholder must all act in "good faith" - to ensure that both sides understand the cover that is being asked for and provided.

If there is a problem when the policy is being sold, it may only become apparent when the driver makes a claim under the policy. The insurer may refuse to pay part or all of the amount claimed - or may "void" the policy altogether, treating it as if it has never existed.

Problems like this include "fronting" - where a parent insures a vehicle saying they are the main driver, while actually their child is the main user. By insuring the vehicle in the parent's name, the premium cost will be much lower.

We regularly see complaints that:
the seller of the motor insurance did not bring a feature of the policy or an exclusion to the policyholder's attention;

the policyholder did not tell the insurer about standard modifications made to the vehicle, driving convictions or previous accidents or claims - and the insurer will now not pay the claim in full or in part;

the policyholder did not provide accurate information about the main driver of the vehicle - and the insurer will now not pay the claim in full or in part;

the intermediary or price comparison website did not pass on information accurately.

how we decide complaints

When making a decision on a complaint, we consider all the relevant circumstances and the arguments put forward by the policyholder and the insurer or the seller of the policy, including:
how information was presented to the policyholder;

what the insurer or broker told the policyholder about the policy;

what information the policyholder was asked to provide - and how the policyholder answered those questions in relation to their situation.

ombudsman news case studies involving the sale of motor insurance
insurer brought exception regarding keys in cars to policyholder's attention
case study 38/5, July 2004
insurer failed to notify policyholder of new policy terms
case study 01/26, January 2001
policyholder failed to notify insurer of modifications and previous claims
case study 01/24, January 2001
case study 72/2, October 2008
case study 79/10, September/October 2009
case study 79/11, September/October 2009
"fronting"
case study 7/18, July 2001
case study 7/19, July 2001
case study 48/2, August 2005
policyholder failed to notify insurer of motoring convictions
case study 25/14, February 2003



claims on motor insurance policies

Many claims by policyholders are settled without any issue. But some claims may be disputed by an insurer. This could be because of uncertainty over details of the event leading to the claim. Or it could be because the insurer believes that the policyholder did not disclose details when they took out the policy that the insurer considers to be "material".

This can lead to an insurer rejecting the claim - or "voiding" the policy altogether, treating it as if it has never existed.

For claims relating to accidents, we often see complaints that the policyholder believes the insurer has not settled the claim appropriately.

how we decide complaints

When making a decision on a complaint, we consider the evidence and the views of both the insurer and the policyholder on issues such as:
how the vehicle came to be stolen or how the accident happened;

how the policyholder reported the theft to the police;

who had access to the vehicle and /or the keys;

any technical reports submitted by the policyholder and the insurer;

what the policyholder told the insurer about the vehicle when they took out the policy;

how the vehicle was damaged;

what the insurer told the policyholder about the insurance policy.

ombudsman news case studies involving claims on motor insurance policies
insurer turned down theft claim because car could not have been taken without programmed key
case study 72/1, October 2008
case study 72/3, October 2008
insurer turned down theft claim because policyholder failed to disclose relevant information when he took out the policy
case study 72/2, October 2008
insurer turned down theft claim because policyholder failed to disclose modifications to the vehicle
case study 79/10, September/October 2009
case study 79/11, September/October 2009
insurer turned down theft claim because the policyholder left the keys in the vehicle
case studies 01/6 to 01/12, January 2001
case studies 38/5 to 38/7, July 2004
case study 63/7, July/ August 2007
case studies 82/8 to 82/12 December 2009/January 2010
Insurer turned down theft claim due to deception
case study 31/4, September 2003

our technical note claims on motor insurance policies
motor insurance: keys in car

ombudsman news features on "keys left in car"
issue 4, April 2001
issue 37, May/June 2004

[des8]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

Adrian Flux are "brokers" so it would be good to know who the actual insurers are, and also see a copy of the policy wording, especially the limited mileage wording, and the "black box" details, and the cancellation terms as written in the policy (not necessarily as claimed by AF)
This seems like yet another "broker" trying to protect his income after making an error.

And by the way the Financial Ombudsman's statement (as quoted in Tuttsi's post above) that Third Party Insurance is the minimum legal requirement is wrong. The minimum requirement is either Road Traffic Act Only insurance (which is different to third party insurance) or have security or made a specified deposit (currently £500,000) with the Accountant General of the Supreme Court.

If they can't be accurate, what hope does anyone have :angry8:

[labman]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

This is the policy your son will have:

http://www.adrianflux.co.uk/black-box/

The website lets you download the policy booklet, but unfortunately the balck box scheme chooses from over 40 different insurance companies, so if you are able to post up a link to the relevant booklet and T&C's, it would be very useful.

Thanks. :XD:

[des8]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

Hi L
That link only gives the broker's blurb, not the actual policy, nor insurers.
I actually tried (by getting a quote from them last night) to obtain the policy wording, but they operate with so many different insurers it wasn't practical.
Have to wait for OP to post again.

[Tomoland]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

Hi L
That link only gives the broker's blurb, not the actual policy, nor insurers.
I actually tried (by getting a quote from them last night) to obtain the policy wording, but they operate with so many different insurers it wasn't practical.
Have to wait for OP to post again.

Hi sorry for late reply, it's with Equity Red Star , I've emailed the CEO and I am waiting on a call back from a manager, we may as well as just put the £3000 he paid in the bin for the use it's been,
il keep you updated

[ostell]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

Or the broker has dropped a really big clanger and is trying to cover himself. Glad you're in contact with the actual insurers. They may be able to clarify matters.

Have you no idea of the actual miles covered from the odometer? Details from MOT and current reading?

[Tomoland]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

Manager rang back and offered £100 goodwill and a letter confirming he has had 9 months claims free driving,waste of paper it's wrote on as insurers will only take 1 yrs claims free, apparently he has doubled his mileage but we know a lot of this was used when he was learning and going out with his dad, they said he was also responsible for keeping a note on his mileage even though I rang twice and was told we would get a text message.
just still annoyed that nothing more can be done

[des8]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

DON'T GIVE UP YET.
Did the Equity Red Star policy only cover your son, or did it cover any other drivers?
Did any one else ever drive the car under their own insurance?
Who says your son has exceeded his limited mileage allowance, AF or Equity Red Star?
Do their mileage records agree with the odometer?
"when he was within 300 miles of limit they would text or email us". don't suppose you have this in writing?
Did the Black box policy suggest the insured would be warned when approaching mileage limit?

Are they still requesting an extra £6000 for his extra mileage, or are they dropping this claim and making £100
goodwill payment as they cancel the policy?
If the latter, and IF your son has done the extra mileage, it isn't a bad deal as long as your son is allowed to cancel. (if they cancel it will cause problems when trying to negotiate replacement cover)

"we may as well as just put the £3000 he paid in the bin for the use it's been,"...not quite as he has had 9 months coverage.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

Something still does not add up here?

I agree with Des8 with his points and also are you still waiting for the CEO to get back to you or is this the Manager who is stepping in with this.

I think someone at their end has made a whopper of a mistake, why else would they drop £6k and give you a measly £100 compensation..... still makes no sense and why is the policy to be cancelled at 9 months and why not for the year that this contract was taken out for?

Again, I would press the CEO to sort this out to your sons satisfaction.
They cannot prove one way or the other that your son has exceeded the mileage allowance. Does your son drive excessively and what was the mileage agreed at for this policy and what mileage had he done?

[Tomoland]

Re: Car insurance query, not sure what to do now?

DON'T GIVE UP YET.
Did the Equity Red Star policy only cover your son, or did it cover any other drivers?
Did any one else ever drive the car under their own insurance?
Who says your son has exceeded his limited mileage allowance, AF or Equity Red Star?
Do their mileage records agree with the odometer?
"when he was within 300 miles of limit they would text or email us". don't suppose you have this in writing?
Did the Black box policy suggest the insured would be warned when approaching mileage limit?

Are they still requesting an extra £6000 for his extra mileage, or are they dropping this claim and making £100
goodwill payment as they cancel the policy?
If the latter, and IF your son has done the extra mileage, it isn't a bad deal as long as your son is allowed to cancel. (if they cancel it will cause problems when trying to negotiate replacement cover)

"we may as well as just put the £3000 he paid in the bin for the use it's been,"...not quite as he has had 9 months coverage.

Hi thanks for the reply, my husband was a named driver, it was AF that have advised he exceeded his mileage and said it was his responsibility to keep an eye on it, they have proof of telephone calls I made confirming that they would text or email once he was at 2700 but it was that system that failed over summer and they are doing catch up now, they cannot tell me when he went over the mileage but said he wasn't insured from when he did but he continued to pay,
sorry what I meant by the £3000 in the bin, whilst they have offered to send a letter confirming claim free for 9 months this will not help when trying to get next insurance at a bit of a better rate as they only accept 1 years claim. Just a bit gutted for son as he was looking forward to having a full wage in dec and January as he was only 2 months off getting his full 12 months no claims.
it would have saved around 30% at next renewal.
now looking around for other insurance.