Vehicle headache

[Xpatterdale]

My spouse and I have split up. Spouse has refused to relinquish possession of both sets of car keys. As the user of the vehicle also has the V..(logbook) or sometimes says it has been destroyed. I am the "owner" with the credit company, I pay the loan, the insurance and tax.
I've applied to DVLA for replacement paperwork. But no sign of it yet
Credit company own the car until I make the last payment, but say I need a key (be in control of the car) to do a repo. Is this really true.
I have sent "signed for" letters requesting the return of keys and vehicle and the 28 days was up a week ago.
what next, how do I take this to court or employ other methods?

[labman]

Re: Vehicle headache

Is the original V5(c) in your name? If so, I'd be inclined to report it to the police as theft. Check with the finance company they are happy to confirm you as the registered keeper and 'owner' in terms of the credit agreement, then report him to the police.

[Bill-K]

Re: Vehicle headache

Is the original V5(c) in your name? If so, I'd be inclined to report it to the police as theft. Check with the finance company they are happy to confirm you as the registered keeper and 'owner' in terms of the credit agreement, then report him to the police.

Hopefully, our resident 'Bobby' will be proceeding by shortly !!!

There's never one about when you want one, is there ?

[Xpatterdale]

Re: Vehicle headache

Thanks, the credit company say the car is theirs until the last payment, but I am the one with the finance agreement and recorded as "the owner" on the original V5c (that I don;t have) and am waiting for DVLA to re-issue. The other party is recorded as "the keeper" although I actually tax, insure and pay for the vehicle -what was I thinking with! I've prepared a letter saying that as 28 day and 14 day reminders have not resulted in the return of the keys I have no alternative to go either to court or report as TWOC'd, there will be terrible fallout, hope this is the right thing to do.

[charitynjw]

Re: Vehicle headache

Is this a CCA loan, or a Bill of Sale type loan?

If the latter, I don't think it is covered by the CCA.

See attached example.

[bluebottle]

Re: Vehicle headache

From what I can see, as the OP has described the situation, it is, at present, a civil matter between them and their former partner. In order to establish and prove Theft, dishonesty, appropriation and intent to permanently deprive have to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. I am afraid that reporting it as being Taken Without the Owner's Consent is not a viable option either, as if the former partner had use of the vehicle during the partnership, the police are likely to be reluctant to take any action and class it as a civil dispute.

If, however, the former partner attempts to sell the vehicle without the consent of the finance company, then it is likely that would amount to Theft as it is established that the finance company is the lawful owner of the vehicle and has the right to determine whether it is sold or not.

Whilst I suspect it is not what the OP wants to hear, I am afraid that if their former partner continues to refuse to surrender the keys to the vehicle, it is a case of applying to the County Court for an order compelling the former partner to surrender the keys into the OP's custody.

[labman]

Re: Vehicle headache

the police are likely to be reluctant to take any action and class it as a civil dispute.

This phrase seems to comprise 90% of police training from what we see here. It's rather sad isn't it!

Thanks for the professional input though - I understand what you're saying, I just think when the owner of a car can't get their hands on it, IMO the police should help. :beagle:

[bluebottle]

Re: Vehicle headache

This phrase seems to comprise 90% of police training from what we see here. It's rather sad isn't it!

Thanks for the professional input though - I understand what you're saying, I just think when the owner of a car can't get their hands on it, IMO the police should help. :beagle:

Far from it, Labman. The CPS are unlikely to run with it, if at all. None of the points to prove for Theft or Taking Without the Owner's Consent are present or capable of proof. In any case, the police cannot become involved in what are, essentially, civil disputes, other than to prevent a Breach of the Peace. The reality is that, at present, it is a civil dispute, pure and simple, and a matter for the two parties involved to resolve between themselves. Failing this, it will be for a civil court to intervene and bring about resolution. As stated in my previous post, if the former partner attempts to sell the vehicle, without the consent of the finance company, then it will be a matter for the police as that will constitute Theft.

[labman]

Re: Vehicle headache

I appreciate that. However, who owns the car? Not the registered keeper.

In this case, the finance company owns the car, the finance is in the name of the OP, who is paying the installments on the finance. If the OP wants the car, IMO they should be able to get it, especially given the circumstances.

My reference to the police was that all too often their response is that things are a civil matter, and they appear to try to avoid getting in things. You yourself have said they say this far too much in the bailiff forums.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all that this would be what they would say. I just think it's wrong that they say it so much. Equally, as I know from very recent personal experience, they will get involved in far more clear cut civil matters on occasions. I was visited because of one text meesage sent to my sister after my father's death and asked not to send any more. When I showed the police what I had been sent, they sat down, had a chat, a cup of coffee and left very amicably.

Where is the consistency? Do they get involved in civil matters or not?

[Inca]

Re: Vehicle headache

What one copper is prepared to sit and chew the fat over would probably send another copper running off in the opposite direction tbh.
I've checked this scenario out and unless and until the Ex willingly hands the keys over then OP hasn't really got a choice but to go down the legal route to obtain the keys. It's an absolute nightmare when relationships melt down to this type of thing..been there..done that.
I wish you luck in this...and don't forget Lady Karma.........she bites

[charitynjw]

Re: Vehicle headache

The car should be cut into two, & they should get half each.

(There is a precedent for this kind of situation somewhere)

[Bill-K]

Re: Vehicle headache

Indeedy, Chaz. I'm kerrap at caselaw, but yes, we do remember the good ones, don't we ? And we can always google it and C & P these days, can't we - bless us...

One of the qualities most ascribed to Solomon is his wisdom. The book of 1 Kings recounts how Solomon prays for wisdom:

"And the king went to Gibeon to sacrifice there; for that was the great high place: a thousand burnt offerings did Solomon offer upon that altar. In Gibeon the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee. And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day. And now, O Lord my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in. And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude. Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?" (1 Kings 3:4-9)^[10]

"So God said to him, 'Since you have asked for this and not for long life or wealth for yourself, nor have asked for the death of your enemies but for discernment in administering justice, I will do what you have asked...'" (1 Kings 3:11-12)^[10] The Hebrew Bible also states that: "The whole world sought audience with Solomon to hear the wisdom God had put in his heart." (1 Kings 10:24)^[11]

In one account, known as the Judgment of Solomon, two women came before Solomon to resolve a quarrel over which was the true mother of a baby. When Solomon suggested they should divide the living child in two with a sword, one woman said she would rather give up the child than see it killed. Solomon then declared the woman who showed compassion to be the true mother, and gave the baby to her.

[bluebottle]

Re: Vehicle headache

I appreciate that. However, who owns the car? Not the registered keeper.

In this case, the finance company owns the car, the finance is in the name of the OP, who is paying the installments on the finance. If the OP wants the car, IMO they should be able to get it, especially given the circumstances.

My reference to the police was that all too often their response is that things are a civil matter, and they appear to try to avoid getting in things. You yourself have said they say this far too much in the bailiff forums.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all that this would be what they would say. I just think it's wrong that they say it so much. Equally, as I know from very recent personal experience, they will get involved in far more clear cut civil matters on occasions. I was visited because of one text meesage sent to my sister after my father's death and asked not to send any more. When I showed the police what I had been sent, they sat down, had a chat, a cup of coffee and left very amicably.

Where is the consistency? Do they get involved in civil matters or not?

I can understand your frustration, Labman. However, the reality is that the police, today, are being used as a political football and corporate influences are being allowed to infiltrate the way in which they operate, resulting in policing being target-driven and judged by the number of FPNs issued, arrests made and vehicles seized, instead of strategic policies aimed at preventing and reducing crime. Community Policing was such a policy and worked very well indeed. If Community Policing was still being used, it is very possible that a community police officer, in the OP's case, would have paid the OP's partner a visit, pointed out the folly of his ways and made him hand over the keys. Unfortunately, in these modern times, there is too much political interference in the way the police do their job, resulting in unlawful, unnecessary and wrongful arrests.

The other problem is individuals and businesses telling the police someone has committed an offence when, in reality, no offence has been committed. This not only wastes valuable police resources, but significant amounts of taxpayers' money also. The electorate needs to tell the politicians, in no uncertain terms, to stop interfering in the way the police operate and to crackdown on those individuals and businesses who waste police officers' time and public money making either frivolous or false reports to the police. Policing, in the UK, has always been by consent, not by imposition.

With bailiffs, a lot of it is down to inadequate or no training in the laws applicable to the way in which bailiffs operate which prompts police to claim incidents involving bailiffs are civil matters. The other problem is that there are certificated bailiffs who are former police officers and who were kicked out of the police service for corruption, violence towards members of the public or other police officers, criminal conduct or being drunk on duty. Quite often, they will tell serving officers they are former officers and this, unfortunately, coupled with inadequate training, has the effect of swaying the officer to side with bailiff. My suspicion is that the courts are unaware of these former police officers' pasts and, if they did know of why they were kicked out the police service, it is very unlikely they would be granted a bailiff certificate.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Vehicle headache

That is the judgement of Solomon, so based on that well known judgement the car should be cut in half and each get a half.... lol
Biblical narrative


School of Giorgione, The Judgement of Salomon, 1500.


The story is recounted in 1 Kings 3:16-28. Two young women who lived in the same house and who both had an infant son came to Solomon for a judgment. One of the women claimed that the other, after accidentally smothering her own son while sleeping, had exchanged the two children to make it appear that the living child was hers. The other woman denied this and so both women claimed to be the mother of the living son and said that the dead boy belonged to the other.
After some deliberation, King Solomon called for a sword to be brought before him. He declared that there was only one fair solution: the live son must be split in two, each woman receiving half of the child. Upon hearing this terrible verdict, the boy's true mother cried out, "Oh Lord, give the baby to her, just don't kill him!" The liar, in her bitter jealousy, exclaimed, "It shall be neither mine nor yours—divide it!"
The king declared the first mother as the true mother and gave her the baby. King Solomon's judgment became known throughout all of Israel and was considered an example of profound wisdom.

The car should be cut into two, & they should get half each.

(There is a precedent for this kind of situation somewhere)

[Xpatterdale]

Vehicle on finance from Moneybarn

Hi, back in the Autumn I tried the forum to get advice on a vehicle dispute which I can't find now! My son foolishly purchased a car for which his now estranged wife is the 'user' No one wants to help and he is still paying for this car at a silly rate of interest. He does not have a key, so is not in control of the vehicle.
Finally got him to order a copy of the agreement which has just arrived.
Going through the 'small print' not paying the direct debit is just going to stack up silly costs.

However, in the section Restrictions on use 5.3 " You may not abandon the vehicle and you must keep the Vehicle in your possession or control"
Moneybarn have know he has not been in compliance with this condition since he first contacted them in August 2013 .
In the section Options on Occurrence of an event of default
8.1 reads" On or after the occurrence of and Event or Default we shall be entitled (Subject to the Consumer Credit Act 1974) and after serving a Default Notice, at our option to terminate this Agreement"

The question is: can he request or in any way make them enforce that option?

The very best thing will be to get shot of the vehicle and the debt on it as soon as possible, but he has no access to it and DVLA will not issue replacement documents and just returned the fee when he tried to get one, explaining all the issues.