One for Bluebottle perhaps?

[Kitiara]

In late November 2010 a friend of mine decided that as she was not using her car enough to warrant keeping it informed the finance company that she wished to return it and called them to arrange a collection / relevant paperwork etc. No date for collection was agreed at this point but the finance was sorted and she was informed that she wouldn't have to make any more payments (she had paid well over half the finance at this point) and she signed the paperwork relinquishing the car back to them. End of December the tax and insurance ran out, as the car was due to be collected in the near future and the car was parked in a secure private car park where she lives, my friend decided not to MOT / insure the vehicle BUT she didn't SORN it either. The vehicle was finally collected in March 2011 and the V5 was signed over to the finance company, in June 2012 she received a summons from DVLA for not having any tax on the car from Dec 2010, she thought that as the car was not being used on the public road and was parked in a private car park, that tax etc was not required. She has apparently ignored the letters and hasn't heard from the DVLA since the last letter saying it was being passed to baliffs in November 2012...

She also had a couple of DCA's contact her regarding non payment of the finance on the car between Nov 2011 & March 2012, again she ignored these as she had paperwork from the finance company saying that the contract had ended on relinquishing the car back to them and no further payments were due. These now seem to have stopped without any acknowledgement of them from my friend.

My question is .... Do you need tax / insurance on an unused car in the circumstances described above and should she have declared the car SORN? If anything was going to be done re: the baliffs, would she have heard from them by now or is it a ticking timebomb?

Thanks,

Kit

[ostell]

Re: One for Bluebottle perhaps?

If the car is not SORN'ed then you need tax, MOT and insurance on it. Next question is to sort out who actually owned the car at that time. Hope those letters from the Finance company are to hand.

[Guest]

Re: One for Bluebottle perhaps?

HI KItiara

There are a couple of issues here as far as I can see. Firstly the termination of the HP with the finance company, this would have been effective form the date on the termination notice.

Secondly the liability to tax / sorn the vehicle, this would have been the responsibility of the person who was in possession of the vehicle.

There is 6 months between you terminating the agreement and them receiving the documentation, which is unusual as finance companies, usually need to sell the car to recover their losses after a voluntary termination, if that is what it was.

We could really do with seeing exactly what paperwork was issued when the termination took place, we need to ascertain if this was a Voluntary termination under section 100 or a voluntary surrender of the vehicle.

On a VT you would only be liable for half the sums owed under the agreement, on a VS you would be liable for all sums less the value of the car and any rebate due to early settlement.

Others may be best to advise on the licensing issue.

Regards
Andy

[charitynjw]

Re: One for Bluebottle perhaps?

I seem to recollect from the dim, distant past*, a case very similar to this, where it was decided that, once the finance co. accepted the termination, they assumed full responsibility for vehicle.
If I remember correctly, there was even some discussion as to whether the person who owned the land on which the vehicle was stored was entitled to charge a reasonable 'storage' fee.

*Old age & a misspent youth has taken it's toll!

[Guest]

Re: One for Bluebottle perhaps?

I seem to recollect from the dim, distant past*, a case very similar to this, where it was decided that, once the finance co. accepted the termination, they assumed full responsibility for vehicle.
If I remember correctly, there was even some discussion as to whether the person who owned the land on which the vehicle was stored was entitled to charge a reasonable 'storage' fee.

*Old age & a misspent youth has taken it's toll!

HI Charitynjw

Not sure about that Charitynjw, the HP company always have ownership of the vehicle of course until the last payment and the transfer fee is paid, I would have thought that the responsibility to license the vehicle would be down to the holder of its documentation. I think the OP said that the transfer of this was some six months later than the termination.

Perhaps more information would help.

Andy

[charitynjw]

Re: One for Bluebottle perhaps?

Hi Andy,

From post #1
Creditor accepts termination of contract Nov 2010 & agrees (implied in the post) to collect the vehicle.
Therefore, end of contract = end of ownership/responsibility.
Vehicle not collected 'till March 2011.
The thorny problem is the V5 not being changed until then.
From an 'out of interest' point of view, if the vehicle had been stolen, say Feb 2011, would the finance co. have claimed on their insurance?
Having said that, I'm sure DVLA will go after the 'softer' target!

[Guest]

Re: One for Bluebottle perhaps?

Hi Andy,

From post #1
Creditor accepts termination of contract Nov 2010 & agrees (implied in the post) to collect the vehicle.
Therefore, end of contract = end of ownership/responsibility.
Vehicle not collected 'till March 2011.
The thorny problem is the V5 not being changed until then.
From an 'out of interest' point of view, if the vehicle had been stolen, say Feb 2011, would the finance co. have claimed on their insurance?
Having said that, I'm sure DVLA will go after the 'softer' target!

HI Charitynjw

I am open to be proven incorrect, but as far as I am aware the termination of the finance agreement is not the same as the transfer of possession of the vehicle.

The car never belonged to the OP in any case, if the documents had been transferred along with the termination I think he/ she would have a case.

But the licensing is only one of the issues as said, there is the issue of the outstanding installments that are being claimed, we need more info regarding the termination IMO.

Andy

[bluebottle]

Re: One for Bluebottle perhaps?

It is all down to who the registered owner or keeper was at the time the tax disc expired. If the OP was, then an offence was committed by not renewing the tax and insuring it and ensuring the vehicle's MOT was valid or registering a SORN. It has to be one or the other. In those circumstances, the fine is valid.

As for the finance company sending the OP a letter informing them no further payments were due and then instructing a DCA to chase the OP, I would challenge them as to what they are up to. However, I have noted that the letters have stopped and am wondering if the finance company has checked its records and realised what it said and decided to call off the DCA.

[Kitiara]

Re: One for Bluebottle perhaps?

Hi Guys,

Thank you for your replies, I'm not sure exactly what has happened re: the creditor setting the DCA on to my friend for the installments after the termination, I am inclined to agree with BB that they have realised their c*ckup and called them off. Regarding the tax issue, again other than a letter saying that the fine had not been paid and so was being passed to the bailiffs in Nov 2012, no other correspondence as arrived, no "hello we're the baliff - pay us or else" letter etc. Should my friend contact the DVLA and ask what is the status of this (she is happy to pay if she owes it as it was ignorance rather than deliberately not taxing the vehicle) or should she "let sleeping dogs lie" and wait to see if any thing appears from the baliffs (is it usual for there to be 8/9 months delay between being told it was being passed to the baliffs and them actually contacting you?)

Thanks,

Kit

[Guest]

Re: One for Bluebottle perhaps?

Hi Kitira

Regarding the creditor pursuing payments post termination, there should be no contractual payments due of course if the agreement has indeed been terminated. There may be other sums due post termination, dependent on the method used to terminate the agreement/value and condition of the car etc..

Andy