Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

[xs2man]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi all, Where are the draft letters?

They are here... http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...on-Your-rights

[malnik]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I posted previously that I was terminating my Fiat PCP early and I would update the process.
Car was purchased new from Fiat on no deposit and kept for 2.5 years out of 4 years.

As stated earlier, I spoke with Fiat about the car, with regard to changing it, knowing it still had time to run. Never heard of the voluntary termination process, in fact the Fiat finance person told me about it. So i decided i would. I did feel a little bad as I was reneging on a deal I did, but kept reminding myself its in the terms and if i fell behind with payments, they would use the contract to the final point. So its fine for me too as well.
Fiat said it had to be done with their own letter, which they sent me. I found this site and used the standard letter on here. The Fiat letter said I understood im liable for all damage. They also said they would not accept my letter, had to be theirs.
But i continued with the site letter.
I waited to hear from them regarding picking up the car. But heard nothing so I rang on day 10. I explained that as of day 14 i was no longer responsible and would be notifying DVLA and canceling insurance leaving it parked on the road. They said they were short of assessors and couldn't give me a date. I repeated the above and they gave me a date on day 14. No specific time just morning or afternoon appointment.
I asked for morning. I decided I could tolerate a late arrival at my work.
On the day specified, day 14, I took pics of the car, lots! It was in good condition and mioleage possibly slightly over the allowance for time.
Man arrived about 10:30, gave him coffee, chatted, he was from auction house. Manheim I think is the name.
He inspected the car and was here about an hour. He took pics and filled out forms. I gave him the V5.
There were a couple of stone chips, a few minor scratches. Interior was in my opinion normal for family car. Back seats a little dirty from kids. Frint perfect.
He listed the scratches, he missed the stone chips, (or was not concerned), he found a small dent in a bodyline crease. These were noted on an electronic form, but in a special box on the form for damage, he stated there was no damage to the vehicle. He did say it was in his opinion, perfect condition.
He printed the form on a personal printer and asked me to sign it. I decided to sign it based on his note that there was no damage. I felt even if they pursued me for anything i would say it was fair wear and tear. Which it was!
I asked him what next, he said he would leave the key on the front wheel and someone would send a truck for it. He filled out the V5 slip and gave it to me. At that point I signed it and the car was not mine any longer. He was a nice man, no idea we were terminating early, just sent to list the condition for his client, Fiat Finance. No stress, no bad attitude.
I offered to put the key in my gas meter box as I was not sure leaving it on the wheel was safe!!! So we did. Off he went. I went to work expecting it to be gone when i got home. I needed the space as we had a new car! I notified DVLA electronically about the sale.
The car sat there for 2 weeks weeks. Lost and lonely. It started to annoy my neighbours as we were taking parking spaces! But by the end I was interested to see how long it took for them to get it. I still had the key in my meter box!
Finally they called home and my wife took the call. They said they were picking it up and needed someone to be home to sign. She said no, its not ours, its yours, no one is here during the day.
The person was adamant. Its company policy she kept saying! She said you need to change the policy then as she was signing nothing!
A further week later we arrived home and it was gone. That was 2 weeks ago. Haven't heard anything from anyone so far.

Quite a painless process, no issues at this point. To be fair, Fiat Finance have been fine. No tricks to mention, just the must sign pressure. Luckily having read this forum, we knew what was what! The worse part was that because we have 2 cars, we decided to change them both, so at one point we had 4 cars! This one parked for so long was annoying......

If anything changes, I will update.

[Jacques]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION], thanks for all your help. This forum as been really helpful and thanks for everyone who posts.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I posted previously that I was terminating my Fiat PCP early and I would update the process.
Car was purchased new from Fiat on no deposit and kept for 2.5 years out of 4 years.

As stated earlier, I spoke with Fiat about the car, with regard to changing it, knowing it still had time to run. Never heard of the voluntary termination process, in fact the Fiat finance person told me about it. So i decided i would. I did feel a little bad as I was reneging on a deal I did, but kept reminding myself its in the terms and if i fell behind with payments, they would use the contract to the final point. So its fine for me too as well.
Fiat said it had to be done with their own letter, which they sent me. I found this site and used the standard letter on here. The Fiat letter said I understood im liable for all damage. They also said they would not accept my letter, had to be theirs.
But i continued with the site letter.
I waited to hear from them regarding picking up the car. But heard nothing so I rang on day 10. I explained that as of day 14 i was no longer responsible and would be notifying DVLA and canceling insurance leaving it parked on the road. They said they were short of assessors and couldn't give me a date. I repeated the above and they gave me a date on day 14. No specific time just morning or afternoon appointment.
I asked for morning. I decided I could tolerate a late arrival at my work.
On the day specified, day 14, I took pics of the car, lots! It was in good condition and mioleage possibly slightly over the allowance for time.
Man arrived about 10:30, gave him coffee, chatted, he was from auction house. Manheim I think is the name.
He inspected the car and was here about an hour. He took pics and filled out forms. I gave him the V5.
There were a couple of stone chips, a few minor scratches. Interior was in my opinion normal for family car. Back seats a little dirty from kids. Frint perfect.
He listed the scratches, he missed the stone chips, (or was not concerned), he found a small dent in a bodyline crease. These were noted on an electronic form, but in a special box on the form for damage, he stated there was no damage to the vehicle. He did say it was in his opinion, perfect condition.
He printed the form on a personal printer and asked me to sign it. I decided to sign it based on his note that there was no damage. I felt even if they pursued me for anything i would say it was fair wear and tear. Which it was!
I asked him what next, he said he would leave the key on the front wheel and someone would send a truck for it. He filled out the V5 slip and gave it to me. At that point I signed it and the car was not mine any longer. He was a nice man, no idea we were terminating early, just sent to list the condition for his client, Fiat Finance. No stress, no bad attitude.
I offered to put the key in my gas meter box as I was not sure leaving it on the wheel was safe!!! So we did. Off he went. I went to work expecting it to be gone when i got home. I needed the space as we had a new car! I notified DVLA electronically about the sale.
The car sat there for 2 weeks weeks. Lost and lonely. It started to annoy my neighbours as we were taking parking spaces! But by the end I was interested to see how long it took for them to get it. I still had the key in my meter box!
Finally they called home and my wife took the call. They said they were picking it up and needed someone to be home to sign. She said no, its not ours, its yours, no one is here during the day.
The person was adamant. Its company policy she kept saying! She said you need to change the policy then as she was signing nothing!
A further week later we arrived home and it was gone. That was 2 weeks ago. Haven't heard anything from anyone so far.

Quite a painless process, no issues at this point. To be fair, Fiat Finance have been fine. No tricks to mention, just the must sign pressure. Luckily having read this forum, we knew what was what! The worse part was that because we have 2 cars, we decided to change them both, so at one point we had 4 cars! This one parked for so long was annoying......

If anything changes, I will update.

That's good to hear, it is common for them to chase up regarding excess mileage which is beyond the stipulated amount but if its negligible then they may not pursue it. I would suggest you also double check your credit file to make sure they have marked the account as closed and not left any amount outstanding.

[City1]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I have had an email from a lady wanting me to phone her regarding arranging collection of my car. She doesn't say where she is emailing from, but her email address ends mag.co.uk.

Can I get some advice on what I should be doing, is their a protocol?

Cheers

[paulajayne]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

http://www.mag.co.uk/

[City1]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

http://www.mag.co.uk/

Thanks, did work that out.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi City,

What is it you want to know? Sounds like they are just wanting to arrange a time and date to collect the car?

[City1]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi City,

What is it you want to know? Sounds like they are just wanting to arrange a time and date to collect the car?

I was wondering if there was paperwork I should be aware of, is there things I would be asked to do. For example drive the car to them, or would they come to me?

[Jacques]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi again everyone.

Just an update on my VT situation. I have received a letter back from the creditor following my "complaint" letter challenging my liability to pay for excess mileage charges. They have said that I have agreed by signing the credit agreement to pay £0.06 +Vat per mile and that I was over my allowance which has been proportionately reduced to when I VT'd my agreement. Also, they say that I am required to take reasonable care of the vehicle which included not exceeding the annual mileage.

The amount (£839.98) they quote for the excess mileage is also wrong. The the recorded mileage at the time the car was collected is 42947. The calculated pro-rata mileage is 33000 leaving a difference of 9947 which at £0.06 + VAT (£0.072) is £716.18.

I know what the extra bit is, however this is not excess mileage. It is a charge which they detailed in a previous letter which is the sum of a daily pro-rata charge (£6.89/day) on my monthly installments from the date of last payment to when they received my VT. But not even those numbers seem to match up. The only mension of charges in this letter however is excess mileage, no pro-rata monthly charges

They have concluded their letter saying that they believe I am liable for the amount stated for the reasons in the letter and they will now close my complaint. They also say if I am not happy with this decision that I should contact the financial ombudsman.

I am not sure what to do next as they say that I have to contact them by the 8th of November to arrange for payment. I have the contact details of my complaint handler and can call him to try and clarify but I was hoping that [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] could help we right a response telling them that their calculations are wrong and also that I deny liability of these excess mileage charges as they contravene my statuary rights under section 100 of the CCA, similar to the one you wrote for the example letter thread but obviously just incorporating that their calculations are wrong.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Jacques, is it possible for you to upload a copy of the letter with personal info removed?

You can upload photos from here if its easier - www.postimage.org

[Jacques]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION], thank you for your quick response.

I have attacted the letter as requested.

[IMG] free picture upload[/IMG]

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Standard Letter from Ford. It does not seem worth to complain to the Ombudsman as they just look at the terms of the contract and not the bigger picture as seen from previous people complaining. That does not however stop you from challenging the excess mileage. Ford will sell the debt onto Link Financial and it is up to them as to whether they want to take court action. Unfortunately I think the law is clear on your liability which is restricted to 50% and any contractual terms which seek to override that position are not enforceable.

As you can see from the numerous posts here, people end up paying the excess mileage for one reason or another but whether you choose to is up to you. If you want to defend it I will assist you as best I can but I'd be surprised if it ever goes to court. Happy to draft up some sort of response for you but if your end goal is to pay up or come to a settlement when push comes to shove then it would be wasting my time so think about what you want to do first of all.

In the meantime, check your credit file to see if Ford have closed the account down or if they have kept it open.

[Jacques]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

[MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION],

Thank you for looking into the letter form me. I checked my credit report and my account with them still remains open (unchanged). No VT marker either. (Says the record was last updated on 02/10/16.

To be completely honest I, I am a bit scared of the unknown.

What would happen if they decide to pursue the court route and I lose my case. Will I have dept collects turning up at my home and threaten my family or threaten to take goods? Will I need to employ a legal adviser or a solicitor if we do go to court and is there a possibility of the charges increasing and or receiving a CCJ. I am looking to buy a house in the not too distant future and worried what implications this may have on my future and credit report.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

It's unlikely that Ford will take you to court however I have seen from other letters stating that if it is not paid then they will pass the debt onto Link Financial who are debt purchasers. Perhaps Link might try their luck and issue proceedings in an attempt to scare you and pay up but as I said, not seen anyone on here taken to court so far but doesn't mean to say it never will happen.

When you say people coming to take your goods I assume you mean bailiffs. No they won't come because they can only use bailiffs if they have obtained a CCJ against you and you refuse to pay up. If for whatever reason you lose at court then you would be liable for the excess mileage and the application fees of about £150 as it is a small claims matter and recovery of fees are restricted. You don't require a lawyer as you won;t be able to recover the costs if you win but it is possible that the other side could employ one again for scare tactics. Even if you lose at court you have a window of 30 days to pay them the money before you have a CCJ applied on your credit file.

I appreciate if you are looking to buy a house and that of course is something you need to take into account as to whether or not you want to continue to challenge the excess mileage or pay up now. Again lenders have the upper hand and can use that to their advantage to get the payment they need.

If you want to understand where I am coming from you can look at the section on the law relating to VT on this link -> http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...on-Your-rights

The sections I have referenced have to be read together and not individually in order to understand how voluntary termination and liability works. Lenders will argue that section 99 says that terminating does not affect liability accrued before termination but actually the charges only accrued after you terminated and as I said it needs to be read in conjunction with section 100.

When you look at section 100 it sets out a debtor's liability when they VT and it limits the liability. If you replaced the words "total price" with its real definition in section 189 then you would have the following definition (my interpretation):

The debtor shall be liable to pay the creditor one half of the (1) total amount payable which includes the option to purchase price, plus (2) any arrears due immediately before termination. The debtor is not liable for any other sums which are owed to the creditor as a penalty or for a breach of any of the terms under the agreement that were not already due prior to the termination.

Section 173 basically clarifies that if there is a contractual term in the agreement which seeks to override your rights or attempts to increase your liability under the CCA then it cannot be enforced.

The only way a lender can argue that the excess mileage is owed, is if they actually came out and checked your mileage on an annual basis realised you are over and then billed you for breach of your agreement. If you then terminated after they have billed you then you would also owe those charges because they have accrued before termination. But of course that will cost them money to send someone out on a yearly basis so they wouldn't do that.

Hope that makes sense.