Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

[ostell]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

If it's just a very minor scuff, and not into a different colour, try rubbing with something like Brasso. It could just be sufficient to reduce it,.

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Thank you ostell I will try that first :-)

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Just to provide an update on my VT. I sent the letter of termination to Honda yesterday and received a phone call just now explaining next steps. The guy I spoke to was very pleasant and I feel he answered honestly on everything I asked. To summarise, I have to pay the £108 collection charge as this is enforceable in the agreement I signed. I did mention that this contravened the CCA but he was quite adamant that it didn't and people have been forced to pay in previous instances. So looks like I have to pay up as dropping the car off in Birmingham isn't an option for me. Regarding the inspection report, I did ask many times about wanting to protect myself from any nasty bills post me signing the inspection report. Honda said the process is not a money making operation and the only costs they would look to recover would be the depreciation cost of the vehicle as a result of any scuffs, scrapes, etc and not the cost of getting these repaired which would be considerably more. So looks like I am liable for at least £108 collection charge plus any charges as a result of the vehicles depreciation in value as a result of what Honda would consider my negligence ( the car is in what I would consider to be very good condition with the exception of the scuff to the bumper). Would appreciate any feedback and if the above all sounds normal in the VT process.

[Gemski27]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi I'm currently considering a VT on a black horse hire purchase car as I have been leading a company car for the past 6 months and paying for both- not aware of the VT option...... I am over the 50% payment Mark but my concern is that I have not recorded dates etc of when I have had the car serviced. So I have no real service history to show. The agreement does say that I must service car as detailed in manufacturers guidance and show details of this. Will black horse try to charge me for this? Thanks in advance.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi I'm currently considering a VT on a black horse hire purchase car as I have been leading a company car for the past 6 months and paying for both- not aware of the VT option...... I am over the 50% payment Mark but my concern is that I have not recorded dates etc of when I have had the car serviced. So I have no real service history to show. The agreement does say that I must service car as detailed in manufacturers guidance and show details of this. Will black horse try to charge me for this? Thanks in advance.

Do you not have a service history book which is stamped when you take the car to be serviced? Can you prove by other means that the car has been serviced, receipts, dates of payments made by card?

How many services has the car had whilst in your posession?

When you VT your liability is restricted to the 50% amount or the amount paid to date. Even if blackhorse do charge you then they would have to claim it on being that the car was not kept in a reasonable condition. However if the MOT's show that the car does not have any faults that need repairing that could be an indicator that it is in a reasonable condition. Alternatively, Blackhorse would need to prove that the car was not maintained to a reasonable standard which would be difficult if the car is sold at auction straight away.

Just to provide an update on my VT. I sent the letter of termination to Honda yesterday and received a phone call just now explaining next steps. The guy I spoke to was very pleasant and I feel he answered honestly on everything I asked. To summarise, I have to pay the £108 collection charge as this is enforceable in the agreement I signed. I did mention that this contravened the CCA but he was quite adamant that it didn't and people have been forced to pay in previous instances. So looks like I have to pay up as dropping the car off in Birmingham isn't an option for me. Regarding the inspection report, I did ask many times about wanting to protect myself from any nasty bills post me signing the inspection report. Honda said the process is not a money making operation and the only costs they would look to recover would be the depreciation cost of the vehicle as a result of any scuffs, scrapes, etc and not the cost of getting these repaired which would be considerably more. So looks like I am liable for at least £108 collection charge plus any charges as a result of the vehicles depreciation in value as a result of what Honda would consider my negligence ( the car is in what I would consider to be very good condition with the exception of the scuff to the bumper). Would appreciate any feedback and if the above all sounds normal in the VT process.

As I've said to numerous people before on this, your liability is restricted to half the total amount. If you want to go ahead and pay for the collection charge then thats up to you but if it was me I would refuse. Just because it is in a contract does not mean you automatically have to pay it. Where there is a conflict between contract and the law, the law prevails.

As for the inspection report, first rule is that you always get what they say in writing, if they don't want to do that then what they say could be dubious. Some people will say anything to get someone to sign something, take sales people as a good example. That being said just because it is signed and they come with further charges does not mean you have to pay them, but again your choice.

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Thank you R0b (again). Undecided if I will dispute the collection charge tbh, I will see how they ask for payment and if I think it will be easy enough to contest. Last thing I need is bailiffs knocking, court, etc. Will have to think about it. Will post an update when car is collected next week.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

If your undecided then I suggest you make the payment. No point messing around I think, you either accept it or you dispute it. This is where lenders make their money back because people are too scared to contest it. Bear in mind you also have the right to take it to the financial ombudsman. If it goes to the ombudsman to review the lender is automatically charged 500 quid, would it be worth the lender taking it to the ombudsman a which costs them more than the claim is worth? I don't know but it would be stupid to do so.

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi R0b, I didn't realise it would cost them 500. Honda mentioned yesterday that they had won cases with people going to the ombudsman (specifically on collection charges) so I guess it depends on the individual on my case (or they could be making this up). I will make a decision soon but with this new information you have provided I am now on the side of disputing I think. Thanks again.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I wont lie, I have also heard stories of the ombudsman siding with the lenders in regards to collection charges or mileage charges. But then again, the ombudsman are not legal experts and will no doubt be an ordinary joe bloggs who has little understanding of the law. On the flipside, it may have also been a case of not putting in a strong enough argument or using the relevant sections of the law. The sections I have pointed make it abundantly clear that they cannot impose further liability where there is a breach of contract once a VT has been invoked.

Even if the Ombudsman does not side with you, then you are not obliged to pay, they would still need to go to the courts to enforce it.

I too am at the ombudsman stage in relation to my own issues with a lender. Even if I lose, I still won't pay and would probably consider a declaration from the high court which would be binding.

So you are not the only one in the same boat

If you want to take it to the ombudsman you will need to run through their complaints procedure but once exhausted you will have 6 months to make your complaint to the ombudsman. Lengthy and time consuming yes but they would just expect you to cave in and pay rather than go through the hoops.

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I see, thanks for the clarification R0b. So if I dispute the collection charge there will be no danger of debt collectors / negative effect on my credit file until the ombudsman has made a decision? This is how I have read your post but please could you put my mind at ease?

Just to add if the ombudsman did side with Honda I would then pay up as court does not appeal to me one bit. You have bigger balls than I do!

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Well, it could be Russian roulette with the Ombudsman although they should really take a consistent approach, providing they understand the law correctly!

So, wait for the letter's to come from Honda saying that you owe them money, then I'm sure we can draft a letter in response wishing to make a complaint under their procedures.

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Thank you, I will do just that :-)

[cdon]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi, looking for some help. I have read about 200 odd posts trying to look for the info to which it a lot of it was answered but would just like to clarify.

I currently have a hire purchase agreement with barclays which started in april 2013 and ends in march 2017. The total amount payable is £11629.36 and i have so far paid 7790.31 (this includes january payment which comes off in the next week or so).

I am looking to get a new car and have a couple of options:
1) take a car on PCP to which they are offering me £3200 on my current car (i could probably get this up a bit with some haggling). As you cant take negative equity over to a pcp deal I would then be paying £600 to take me over the equity (which is currently around £3600-3700 roughly) and give me a small deposit.
2) Getting a lease through my business (so I can purchase a better car) to which i would not be able to trade in my current car.
i have still to workout all financial details regarding this before making my decision in terms of insurance etc.

It is to my understanding that I cannot sell the car privately while there is finance still outstanding and i can't afford to pay it off and then wait for a sale. The car on the current market (by searching a like for like on autotrader) is around £4500 give or take.

If I take option 1 it is to my understanding that I would be better to do VT and then just pay £200 deposit and save myself £400? Or am i causing too much hassle doing VT and be better off just paying the money? and if option 2 then it is my thinking that VT is the only option.

I cant find anything in my contract regarding termination of the contract or anything that states 50% of total value is payable like i have seen on other posts in this thread, where would I find this? Also im not 100% sure of mileage i would have to check this in the 2years9m of having the car i think i may have done around 30000.

Damage on the car: i have what i would consider to a largeish scuff on the corner of the front bumper, this was on the vehicle when i bought it but have no way of proving this. Should i get this fixed, or maybe get a quote and if try to charge me an obscene amount challenge it? Other than this i dont think there is any damage on the car that wouldnt count as wear and tear (car is 2009 (59reg) ford with around 70k on the clock). It was recently MOT'd in December. I havent had it serviced since i bought it but would be happy to get a service prior to VT.

My last thing that is making me hesitate in doing a VT is that the car is in my husbands name. If it was in my own name i would have no problem in doing it and my husband has happy for me to go ahead with it however as i have read in some of the other posts people are having issues with the financers etc and i would feel really guilty if there was on backlash on his circumstances because of it, also he will obviously have to deal with communications, i dont mind writing letters/emails however if any phone calls are required obviously he will have to deal with this. Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with barclays and if they're quite difficult or fairly straightforward compared to other places?

Sorry for the long post, just trying to get everything in the one go (hopefully!).

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Carly

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Unfortunately, I can't answer your question as to the best option to take but if you can't afford the payments on the current car, why continue to pay for them? The simplest answer is to get rid of the car and look at alternatives rather than potentially defaulting on your payments and then losing the right to VT.

If you can't find the clause about the right to terminate then you might not be under a hire purchase, it may actually be a hire agreement. At the top of the contract what does the title say, and who is the lender? It will say something like "XXXX Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974"


In relation to the scuff on the bumper, the problem you have is that you don't have any proof that the scuff had been there since the time at which you purchased. Was this purchased at a well known dealer, did you see this advertised on a website or was it seen in person?

The law says that the vehicle needs to be in a reasonable condition, the problem with that is nobody really knows what reasonable means. This therefore gives the lender the advantage in trying to bill higher than normal charges against the borrower. The BVRLA does provide some guidance on fair wear and tear, and absent anything else, it could be used as guidance as to what is reasonable and what isn't. The BVRLA says that scratches and abrasions up to 25mm are acceptable according to the car's age and mileage and provided the bare metal is not showing. Therefore anything over and above this, the lender is likely to charge you for it. On the flipside, various leasing companies will have their own versions of what is deemed to be in a reasonable condition. You could argue yourself that the scratch was there at the time of purchase, and failing that the scratch itself does not make the car undesirable (subject to how large we are talking).

So yes, your best bet is to get a few quotes from various places and see what charges are coming in at, and maybe get a quote in writing so you have at least some sort of argument that their charges might be higher than normal. Secondly, can the scuff be minimised or reduced in terms of its look, such as scratch remover, or anything that's available over the counter?

Being upfront and honest, you will likely have some kind of problem with the lender, who will try to recover damages based on the scuff on the bumper amongst anything else they see fit. They will chase you and threaten you with everything they can in their toolkit and as you have read other posts, the question is ultimately whether your husband wants to fight it or just pay them off - some lenders will write things off, others will not.

[cdon]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Thanks R0b, the finance documents are at home so i will read them when i get in. Barclays Partner Finance is the lender. I can afford the payments its just because im upgrading my car i thought VT might save me some money on my deposit as if i pay £600 deposit over 400 of that is going to paying off the finance whereas if i VT the entire £600 (or whatever i choose to pay if less) is going to wards my new car.

I purchased the car from Arnold Clark and the salesman was actually my dads friend so he may vouch for this but he may not remember and wouldn't want to put someone in an awkward position. Im sure i tried a scratch remover before and dont think it worked but i will have another look at it.

Also... if i sent them the VT letter and then later changed my mind can i cancel it or is it a case when it's done it's done?

Will get back to you regarding the documents when i get home.

Thanks for the quick reply.