Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

The first thing is that you do not have to pay anything to VT, the act says that you can terminate the agreement at any time, you do not have to have paid 50% to be able to do it.
I presume you have sent the VT letter ? If so the car will be their problem on the date prescribed in the letter, if they want o pursue for any further money they think you owe they will have to do it after the car has gone back and explain why you were diddled out of this money to the judge.

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply... I actually went ahead with the VT a few weeks ago but I paid them the £214.60 as I didn't realise at the time that I could have VT'd without paying it. I wish I hadn't now but theres no good crying over spilt milk. They then tried to charge me for damage that wasn't there but I had photographic proof that it wasn't as I had taken photos with the newspaper in each shot. Just yesterday they have cancelled the charges but are still pursuing me for £399 for excess milage which I am going to fight them not to pay. I have drafted a letter to send them but wonder if I should mention about the deposit that they took at the beginning of the letter or should I just forget that and just send it regarding the excess milage only?

Kind regards

Claire

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi there Claire - thanks so much for all that... and in fact yes - I did actually end up sending an email asking about invoices/receipts for the 'damage' work so I'll see what they come back with. That's great about them calling you to waive the charges - well done! I bet that's a big relief for you... although as you say it's just all so unjust in the first place. Good luck with the mileage - I think you should hold your ground, but that's easy for me to say eh ;-)... Angela xx

Ah fingers crossed for you!! Thanks Claire x

[jack1973]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi, great article and lots of useful information. It does state in a number of places that excess mileage is not enforceable, however I have a Hire Purchase agreement with Mercedes and towards the back is a term that states;

12.1 If the vehicle is returned to us (whether at the end of the period of hire or an earlier termination), we will calculate the total distance traveled by the vehicle whilst in your possession (the 'Total Distance).
12.2 You will pay us a charge at the rate stated in this agreement if and to the extend that the Total Distance exceeds the allowed distance for the vehicle......etc.....

So, as I signed that at the point of starting the agreement, am I therefore bound to that term?

Many thanks in advance

Jack

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply... I actually went ahead with the VT a few weeks ago but I paid them the £214.60 as I didn't realise at the time that I could have VT'd without paying it. I wish I hadn't now but theres no good crying over spilt milk. They then tried to charge me for damage that wasn't there but I had photographic proof that it wasn't as I had taken photos with the newspaper in each shot. Just yesterday they have cancelled the charges but are still pursuing me for £399 for excess milage which I am going to fight them not to pay. I have drafted a letter to send them but wonder if I should mention about the deposit that they took at the beginning of the letter or should I just forget that and just send it regarding the excess milage only?

Kind regards

Claire

Yes but I would mention the over payment of £200 and say that if you do not receive it within 7 days you will be considering further action.(should put them on the back foot a little)

[Guest]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi, great article and lots of useful information. It does state in a number of places that excess mileage is not enforceable, however I have a Hire Purchase agreement with Mercedes and towards the back is a term that states;

12.1 If the vehicle is returned to us (whether at the end of the period of hire or an earlier termination), we will calculate the total distance traveled by the vehicle whilst in your possession (the 'Total Distance).
12.2 You will pay us a charge at the rate stated in this agreement if and to the extend that the Total Distance exceeds the allowed distance for the vehicle......etc.....

So, as I signed that at the point of starting the agreement, am I therefore bound to that term?

Many thanks in advance

Jack

If it is a HP or conditional sale agreement all the arguments in post 560 apply. Basically you cannot sign away a statutory requirement, so if they put a term in the contract which goes against the legislation it is void.

[jack1973]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

If it is a HP or conditional sale agreement all the arguments in post 560 apply. Basically you cannot sign away a statutory requirement, so if they put a term in the contract which goes against the legislation it is void.

Thanks Andy, very much appreciate the help.

Jack

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Yes but I would mention the over payment of £200 and say that if you do not receive it within 7 days you will be considering further action.(should put them on the back foot a little)

Thats great! Thank u I'll get that sent off tomorrow!

[TheHoob]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

About to start the process to VT my car with Motonovo and I can't decide whether to get a dent in my rear bumper sorted out. It isn't anything major, maybe about 1" in diameter. The car is 11 years old, would it be reasonable to see this as wear and tear on a vehicle so old?

I've also had the car serviced each year but this was carried out by a friend so I don't have stamps. There's nothing in my finance agreement to say that I had to get the vehicle serviced by a registered dealer, could I also argue that this is reasonable or it is likely to be a sticking point too?

The car is probably only worth about £1000 so i'm hoping they won't go too much out of their way to make it difficult.

Thanks in advance

[alphawhiskey]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi there.... am really hoping someone can help me with this:

I followed the instructions as per this (great) thread in terms of triggering the VT on my car and it was collected for auction a few weeks ago. I signed a report form agreeing to 'light scratches' on the front and back bumpers. The chap who collected the car (who admittedly didn't work for the finance company) assured me that the car was well within what he'd call 'fair wear and tear'. I should also add though that it was raining at the time of inspection and so the box which says 'unable to check fully due to wet weather' has been checked on the report form.

I have now received a letter from the finance company demanding I pay them £140 for excess mileage charges as well as £380 for scratches to the bumpers (as marked on report as light scratches), scratches to 3 wheels (not on report) and a chip to the roof (not on report).

My questions are:

1. Do I need to pay the excess mileage? I thought with a VT they couldn't do this
2. Do I need to pay for all the damage they are claiming or am I in my rights to say it's within fair wear and tear as per the feedback from auction house rep who collected the car?

Any help/advice would be SO appreciated!

Thanks

Angela

Hi again...

So, I wrote to RMS saying that I didn't believe I needed to pay either the excess mileage charge (as it was a VT) or the 'damage' charges (as in my opinion it was well within 'fair wear and tear')... and this is the response I got back (below). Any advice on what to do now? All help/guidance v appreciated! Thank you! Angela

RMS' REPLY:

"According to the documents supplied to us by the auction house. It is made apparent that the vehicle showed evidence of damage on collection. Those damage being identified as over and above industry guidelines

Please refer to section ‘6.1’ of your terms and conditions ‘Care of the vehicle’. This explains that you will be solely liable for any loss or damage to the vehicle even it is not your fault.. (6.2) Keep the vehicle in good condition (see clause 18), carry out any repairs and replace parts when necessary and maintain and service the vehicle in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations. Both inspection reports will not necessarily be the same. As much as we would like the agents to identify all damages including the obvious areas of damage, this is not always the case. As you can see from the 1^st inspection report, it states ‘unable to check fully due to – Wet.

Excess Mileage

Your contract makes provisions for an excess mileage charge. We refer you to the excess mileage details on page 2 of your agreement. The agreed annual mileage was 6,000 miles, a total of 18,000 mile full term. Any mileage in excess of this figure would be charged in accordance with your agreement at 5 pence per mile. We also refer you to your terms and conditions “attached” specifically section 14.5 excess mileage charge, ‘The basic mileage is the permitted mileage under the terms of the agreement, calculated by multiplying the basic annual mileage shown in the mileage details section by the number of whole and/or part years that have passed since this agreement date, up to the date of calculation. Excess mileage calculations are based upon total paid months, allocated in monthly intervals, not a daily calculation up to the point of return (not how long you have the vehicle). You had made a total of 34 payments throughout your agreement (Please note your payments made in arrears and any deposits or VT fees are not used in the above calculation).

• Contract term was 37 months
• Pro Rata mileage would be 34 months based on the number of payments our client has received of £99.95pm, which equals a Pro Rata mileage of 16,540
• Collection Mileage = 19,369
• Variance in Mileage = 2,828
• Excess Mileage Cost = £141.42

In order to reach an early commercial settlement our client Citroen Financial Services agrees to accept less than the full amount of the debt owed for damage to vehicle LN12VSX, Citroen Financial Services agreed to accept the sum of £210.00 for damages only, in Full and Final settlement of this damage Claim. (66% of damage balance)

The excess mileage amount will remain at £141.42.

Failure to comply with this request will result in our client immediately demanding the payment of the original amount and reserve the right to issue legal proceedings against you for that amount should payment not be forthcoming."

[Blueboy777uk]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hey AlphaWhiskey,

I am at this exact stage with RMS, whilst the values owed are different it appears to be the same template letter. They claimed our vehicle was both wet and dirty. Neither statements true. Photos to prove. Got to a point whereby we are willing to offer a goodwill gesture payment just to put an end to it - but categorically refuse to pay for "damage" and pro-rate mileage.

Anyone have a suggestion how to counter this latest letter / threat from RMS please? Any help, as ever, greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[alphawhiskey]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi Blueboy

Hmm, yeah a template I bet - not a nice letter to get and I imagine it frightens a lot of people into just paying (I admit it's crossed my mind)... but it's the principle of it that gets me. I get the impression that they just use any tactics possible to claw money back. It's just very difficult to know where you stand legally on any of this and if/how you can counteract their claims!... So yes, any suggestions/advice greatly needed... hopefully we can find a way out of this that works for us!

Angela

[Rocketman]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I write in desparation as I am not sure what to do with this.
My wife took out a 4 year PCP with a well known BMW dealer who have financed the deal through BMW Finance., back in October 2014. She was using her employees cash for car option to cover the payments.
She has now has now had to give up work through severe Depression and Anxiety, and is very ill indeed, which leaves us in a difficult situation.
I can't afford to cover the payments on the BMW on my salary, along with mortgage, house bills etc.

What is the best way of extracting us out of this contract? I want to VT the car. Is the template letter and action recommended at the start of this thread still valid considering this was posted in 2012??? Do I simply send this letter to BMW Finance to advise of VT?

The car is a BMW 520D SE saloon with 4000 miles on the clock. First registered in november 2014.

[Shutterz]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Yes but I would mention the over payment of £200 and say that if you do not receive it within 7 days you will be considering further action.(should put them on the back foot a little)

Hi Andy, this is the email I sent to rms receivables... It took a very long time to get a reply... I'll put his response in red at the end of the email I sent... Could you give me some advice on how to respond to this. Any help would be much appreciated... Claire

Dear Wayne


Thank you for confirming via telephone conversation on 10 March 16.00hrs that the incorrect charges for non existent damage have been written off.





I am now writing to contest the charges for excess milage and requesting that you return the overpayment of £200 that I made to voluntary terminate the vehicle. As I discussed with you earlier I have a receipt for £200 which I paid as a deposit during the negotiations with the Peugeot salesman where he convinced me pay this sum in order to hire the car in September 2012. I believe in law this is a binding agreement called antecedent negotiations. When I wrote to Peugeot to give notice to voluntary terminate (VT) they said I had to pay the sum of £214.60 in order to reach 50% of the sums due. I am therefore requesting you return my overpayment of £200 within 7 days or I may consider further action.


Regarding excess Milage - As you are aware, the Consumer Credit Act 1974 allows for me to voluntarily terminate our agreement without further cost, providing the vehicle agreement has had in excess of 50% of the total sums due paid.

I have paid in excess of 50% of the total sums due under this agreement and the vehicle has been returned in a reasonable condition, as again required by the act to effect a VT. 23000 miles for a 2 and a half year car is well below the average 12k annual milage and therefore when selling my car in auction or retail this would be considered below average.

The Consumer credit act and the contract says that once one half of the total amount payable under the contract is paid nothing else is due.



The amount due on termination is defined in section 100 of the CCA and it says nothing about excess millage fees.



You cannot include a term in a contract which contravenes a provision included in statute for the protection of the consumer (contracting out), such an excess millage term would be in contravention of section 100 and section 173(no contracting out permissible)



Such a term in a contract would be a penalty in common law and unenforceable, as it is not a genuine pre-estimte of losses under the contract, if it were there would be a value for under usage, and a rebate given if the given millage was not attained.


This term was not negotiated under the contract nor was it a core term and therefore under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts act 1999, and I would assert that the term was unfair in that it did not fairly balance the inters of both parties for the above.


I await your response to both issues.


Claire,

With regards to your dispute below, you will need to contact Peugeot Financial services and not us. We have no connection with any potential over payment.

Please contact Peugeot Financial Services Directly.

Excess Mileage

As discussed, please find attached your contract, terms and conditions and voluntary termination response and quotation form.

Your contract makes provisions for an excess mileage charge. We refer you to the excess mileage details on page 2 of your agreement. The agreed annual mileage was 6,000 miles, a total of 18,000 mile full term. Any mileage in excess of this figure would be charged in accordance with your agreement at 4.17 pence per mile. We also refer you to your terms and conditions specifically section 14.5 excess mileage charge, ‘The basic mileage is the permitted mileage under the terms of the agreement, calculated by multiplying the basic annual mileage shown in the mileage details section by the number of whole and/or part years that have passed since this agreement date, up to the date of calculation. Excess mileage calculations are based upon total paid months, allocated in monthly intervals, not a daily calculation up to the point of return (not how long you have the vehicle). You had made a total of 28 payments throughout your agreement (Please note your payments made in arrears and any deposits or VT fees are not used in the above calculation).

• Contract term was 37 months
• Pro Rata mileage would be 28 months based on the number of payments our client has received of £189.89pm, which equals a Pro Rata mileage of 13,621
• Collection Mileage = 23,209
• Variance in Mileage = 9,587
• Excess Mileage Cost = £399.79

The consumer credit act protects consumers, but you have signed a contract with a party and you are liable to honor that contract as you are in breach of that contractual agreement. We must remind you that a refusal to pay the excess mileage charges is a contractual breach and is considered to be a fraudulent misuse of a financial asset. Non-payment can result in your details being registered on the National Fraud Database, CIFAS the UK’s fraud prevention services). This should not be seen as inappropriate advice.


We therefore politely request that you call our office on 0113 2014440 to make payment to the total sum of £399.79 by debit or credit card. Alternatively please pay into the following bank account.

RMS Receivables:
Sort Code: 20-11-81
Account Number: 13500314
(Our reference must be quoted with all payments

Regards,

Wayne

[Blueboy777uk]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

"The consumer credit act protects consumers, but you have signed a contract with a party and you are liable to honor that contract as you are in breach of that contractual agreement."

How are any of us in breach of contract by exercising our legal right to VT a vehicle assuming that we have met the financial criteria to do so? Is this correct? If not then surely that is their argument muted?

[Blueboy777uk]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Just done some research on the intersting term used -

"We must remind you that a refusal to pay the excess mileage charges is a contractual breach and is considered to be a fraudulent misuse of a financial asset."

The UK Law Society states there is no statutory definition of finaicial abuse. The nearest I can find to the statement used is "assest misappropriation fraud" which relates to "third parties or employees in an organisation who abuse their position to steal from it through fraudulent activity" - Source http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

Threatening someone with an unfounded criminal charge seems an extreme measure. We have not broken any laws and suggest criminality for a consumer debt is both shocking and ethically wrong? Surely? Am I the only one who thinks this? Any of our learned friends on here want to wade in with some well founded advice?